Pls dont.
Just install several pythons with different binary names.
ex. python3.8, python3.9, python3.11
No need to complicate things.
If using Poetry, you can just do `poetry env use python3.8`.
Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
161–170 of 341 posts
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#162I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
I think that you are painting a bit of an unreasonably bleak view of pyenv. I think that one can easily get value out of it without being a Python expert. I’m not sure how I can refute your “yes, but you’ll eventually run into trouble. You just haven’t clocked enough hours yet”. I can’t prove a negative. But I’ll say that I’ve been writing Python in my day job for a decade.
But, to add to the list of problems, these Python versions IIRC do not compile with optimisation turned on, so they’re by default quite a bit slower than they need to be.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#163I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
Actually, it only builds it locally if it can't find a pre-packaged version for your system/arch. Admittedly that's most of the recent ones on a Mac, but there is a difference (I've been using pyenv for nearly ten years[1] now). The big advantage for me is that I can match whatever runtime and standard library a target has (and yes, that's needed more times than not, even in this new age of Docker). Additionally, you…
> Actually, it only builds it locally if it can't find a pre-packaged version for your system/arch. Admittedly that's most of the recent ones on a Mac, but there is a difference (I've been using pyenv for nearly ten years[1] now).
Really? I regularly use this on Linux exactly because it compiles from source rather than using the system provided Python which often have patches in them that breaks pip's test suite.
I've never encountered it trying to use the system provided Python, but maybe there's a weird quirk in the way I am using it.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#164Seeing pyenv inside of docker containers is always a treat
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, what is "the tool for beginners fighting with python packaging problems"? That is, the pattern seems to be that someone mentions a solution, then a zillion responses as to why it sucks. Is there any tool or pair that sucks least for most cases and beginners? I get that every case is different, but perhaps there are some useful starting points?
There isn't one. Python distribution and packaging is just fundamentally horribly broken. I think his point was that you shouldn't pretend to users that just switching to pyenv is the solution.
> Python distribution and packaging is just fundamentally horribly broken
It's clearly not because most people successfully use it fine.
The problem of distribution and packaging is often a matter of user expectations vs. the actual problem.
The user expectations is that Python is a high level language and will run the same across different machines regardless of OS and Hardware.
The actual problem is Python is a glue language often depending on lots of libraries that are sensitive to how they were compiled and what hardware they are targeting. So people can end up moving the the glue of the project first and then expect everything else to just work.
Things are getting better (e.g. https://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/python-packaging-must-be-...), a lot of people have put a lot of work into standards and improving the ecosystem, but it is a hard problem that most other popular languages don't interface with nearly as much.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#166Tools you can use to make sure the Python program you wrote keeps working: requirements.txt, pip, pipenv, pyenv, virtualenv, pyenv-virtualenv, virtualenvwrapper, pyenv-virtualenvwrapper, venv, pyvenv, conda, miniconda, poetry, docker, nix. Which ones did I miss? Which of them actually ensure your program always works the same as when you first wrote it, without asterisks?
Pyinstaller, provided you build it in a reasonably old glibc to avoid glibc incompatibilities. I know that is a caveat but it is a one time build time operation.
Doesn't Pyinstaller also require CPython to have been built with '--enable-shared'? I _think_ this is the default for most system-installed Pythons that I've seen, but it's not the default if you build Python from source or install via pyenv.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#167In windows I just use subst to switch python versions. Python always sits on drive P:. Never understood what all the fuzz about this was about. Sure, I have the same package on my disk multiple times, but if I cared about that there'd be easy ways to get around that problem just using OS functionality.
From my perspective, it doesn't come easier than running a batch file to switch between python versions.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#168I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
I call it the curse of Python.
When the God Of Programming made Python, all other languages were jealous of its elegance, simplicity and intuitive beauty. When the other programming languages went to complain he said..."Wait until you see what package systems I will give them...They will never get an environment properly setup..." :-)
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#169I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
> See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" > https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use Just curious: what are the downsides of poetry installed with pipx? The article mentions having to install poetry in another venv, but that's hardly an issue with pipx (you just add an 'x' after 'pip'), and installing pipx is as straight-forward as it can be.
Agreed pipx solves a lot of packaging issues with no downside to speak of. Not just with poetry but also for tools like virtualenv, ruff and black and non-dev command line tools.
Re: Pyenv – lets you easily switch between multiple versions of Python
#170Pls dont. Just install several pythons with different binary names. ex. python3.8, python3.9, python3.11 No need to complicate things. If using Poetry, you can just do `poetry env use python3.8`.
Here's all the project boilerplate you need with pyenv when working on a new project.
> $ pyenv install 3.8
> $ pyenv local 3.8
> $ python3 -m venv .venv
> $ source .venv/bin/activate
and you're done. Not really sure what you might consider difficult about pyenv, but it's just a tool to instigate your python venvs which is a built tool for most modern versions of python.