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EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

9to5mac.com

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Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#31

Post by SigmundurM »

supermatt wrote: post #8
notamy wrote: post #6

> could be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover That "up to" makes me nervous that 10% won't happen, but I love the idea of smacking companies with real fines for not complying / maliciously complying with laws.

It wont happen immediately. Fines will likely happen in the same way that they have for the GDPR violations, which are effectively doubling for every major offence, and are now up to 1.2bn EUR in the case of Meta, for example.

The first offence has a max fine of 10%. Second offence has a max fine of 20%, as the article says:

"If that investigation confirms that Apple failed to comply with the antitrust law, then the iPhone maker could be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover – increasing to 20% for repeat infringements …"

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#32

Post by FredPret »

gambiting wrote: post #21
FredPret wrote: post #14

Apple’s revenue was over 100B last quarter ( https://valustox.com/AAPL ) and about 380B over the past four quarters. Looks like they make about 30% of that in Europe. Sounds like about 80% of their headaches come from Europe. If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent wit…

>>it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe If the alternative is breaking EU rules - great. Let's see that happen. >>As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. It's hard to see why a country(well in this case a group of countries) would want to do good for their own citizens? I guess in some places of the w…

Economic and technological isolation is what's best for the people of the EU? Because that's the downside here.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#33

Post by jacobsimon »

iSnow wrote: post #11

Don't understand Apple here. This was a clear cut case of malicious compliance, what did they expect? That they just get away with it? Of course the EU would see the provocation and will take the opportunity. Yes, they might gain a couple years till this is settled, but they can't use the time to crush a competing app store in between, as there is currently none. I am sure I am dumb, but IMO the smart move would have…

This might sound like a dumb question - but why do lawmakers write such roundabout legislation in the first place?

They could have passed a law that says “In the EU, app stores including Apple’s App Store on iOS will not be allowed to charge a fee greater than x% on developers.” And the whole thing would be solved. We can argue about what X should be, but then we wouldn’t have to jump through all these hoops.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#34

Post by imacomputer »

FredPret wrote: post #14

Apple’s revenue was over 100B last quarter ( https://valustox.com/AAPL ) and about 380B over the past four quarters. Looks like they make about 30% of that in Europe. Sounds like about 80% of their headaches come from Europe. If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent wit…

Maybe they will pull out of Europe then, but laws are laws and businesses must comply. Whether those lose make sense is another issue.

> As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend.

This isn't a trade war, there is no competition the EU is trying to bolster. The way I see it they are just being assertive about their market rules, which is refreshing considering other regions tend to get walked over.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#35

Post by zooq_ai »

gambiting wrote: post #28
zooq_ai wrote: post #20

[flagged]

>>This is why I like Trump to win so that he can tell these EU blood suckers to back off American Companies and stop using them as a piggy bank because their sad, pathetic regulations are literally kneecapping an entire industry. If Americans don't want to play by European rules, they are absolutely free to stop doing business here. No one is forcing them. Also how do you imagine it working? Trump becomes president a…

[flagged]

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#36

Post by mattlondon »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #27
aaomidi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has said they’re going to fast track the enforcement of these. Apple lawyers, simply, fucked up. They lost so much good will with developers over this, have lost any goodwill with negotiations with EU, and are now going to have to speedrun compliance. I’ve dealt with lawyers like this before in various company situations. They are sometimes really, really stupid. Not always, but it happened often enough to be…

I’ve worked on this very issue, and what happens is the lawyers lay out a menu of options and consequences of each. This was Cook’s call, and hubris is guiding him.

I am unsure about hubris, but I can totally see it as a "That does not align with our long-term strategy" and it getting rejected.

Perhaps there was some "But we're apple! We are a luxury aspirational brand! We shouldn't have to lower ourselves to this" in the traditional reality-distortion-field of thinking they are somehow special or above the rules that everyone else has to deal with. I'll admit is kinda fund to imagine that, but hey :)

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#37

Post by gambiting »

FredPret wrote: post #32
gambiting wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe If the alternative is breaking EU rules - great. Let's see that happen. >>As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. It's hard to see why a country(well in this case a group of countries) would want to do good for their own citizens? I guess in some places of the w…

Economic and technological isolation is what's best for the people of the EU? Because that's the downside here.

I don't understand - using apple products is some kind of blessing from the gods and without them Europe is now going to be in "technological isolation"? Get real for a second - apple devices are luxury and if Apple pulled out of EU tomorrow the only losing side in that equation would be apple.

No idea why we'd be in economic isolation because of that either. Is our trading of general goods with US reliant on Europeans buying iPhones?

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#39

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

iSnow wrote: post #19
aaomidi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has said they’re going to fast track the enforcement of these. Apple lawyers, simply, fucked up. They lost so much good will with developers over this, have lost any goodwill with negotiations with EU, and are now going to have to speedrun compliance. I’ve dealt with lawyers like this before in various company situations. They are sometimes really, really stupid. Not always, but it happened often enough to be…

Usually, a company does have reasons to play hard ball with authorities, but I fail to understand what it could be in this case. Apple hoping for a far-right Republican presidency that would create a trade war with the EU?

> Apple hoping for a far-right Republican presidency that would create a trade war with the EU?

That's the concerning thing...

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#40

Post by Jensson »

jacobsimon wrote: post #33
iSnow wrote: post #11

Don't understand Apple here. This was a clear cut case of malicious compliance, what did they expect? That they just get away with it? Of course the EU would see the provocation and will take the opportunity. Yes, they might gain a couple years till this is settled, but they can't use the time to crush a competing app store in between, as there is currently none. I am sure I am dumb, but IMO the smart move would have…

This might sound like a dumb question - but why do lawmakers write such roundabout legislation in the first place? They could have passed a law that says “In the EU, app stores including Apple’s App Store on iOS will not be allowed to charge a fee greater than x% on developers.” And the whole thing would be solved. We can argue about what X should be, but then we wouldn’t have to jump through all these hoops.

They did that for credit cards, but for app stores I think opening up for competition is probably better than capping the fees because here a big problem isn't just the fees but also the control and influence these big corporations has as digital gatekeepers.
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