Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#161

Post by snom380 » Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 7:41 AM UTC

neodymiumphish wrote: post #131

pathartl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I find this to be such a weird argument. Apple does the same crap with iCloud and people put their hardware on a pedestal when it has the same inherent flaws, often for a much higher price. And maybe you share this opinion, I just want to point out that this hardware from MS is relatively benign in the grand scheme of the PC world.

Completely agree that Apple does the exact same stuff with account management and iCloud notifications, but I don’t understand where these arguments keep coming from that Apple is more costly. The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200 Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400 However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same sp…

Does Apple require an Apple ID/iCloud account to set up a Mac? I thought that was a difference with windows 11?

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#162

Post by smackeyacky » Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 7:56 AM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #91

farawayea wrote: post #75

This is the same company which puts ads all over the OS, can't stop trying to upsell people into using onedrive, forcefully signs you into onedrive, syncs your local files into their cloud without consent, tries really hard to not let you sign in with a local account and most likely does other shady things. Their hardware is more or less garbage. My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device. It had other…

Yeah, although, having owned a Surface Book 2, and being a .NET developer, the only Windows sytems I'll have in my home will probably be Microsofts own, unless someone makes laptops that are as nice, for half the cost. Things just work on my SB2. The only reason I'll buy a new one is if it either dies, or I see a really good deal. I've had it since 2017 iirc and its been pretty great thus far. My next laptop will lik…

Dotnet on Linux is superior in every way to windows. No ads, no crap, vscode is better on Linux than windows and since .net framework is dead, no reliance on windows in any way, shape or form.

I mean, you’re probably deploying to Linux containers anyway.

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#163

Post by rwc » Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

snom380 wrote: post #161

neodymiumphish wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree that Apple does the exact same stuff with account management and iCloud notifications, but I don’t understand where these arguments keep coming from that Apple is more costly. The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200 Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400 However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same sp…

Does Apple require an Apple ID/iCloud account to set up a Mac? I thought that was a difference with windows 11?

They do not

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#164

Post by vrinsd » Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 8:33 PM UTC

Sadly, this is more of MSFT's "we can do what Apple does too!".

For a "business" oriented portable why is it so limited on ports? No wired Ethernet? As many others have pointed out, why are the 3D graphics so hobbled? People use laptops for CAD, visualizations and these days GPUs perform offload of a lot of other functions.

I saw someone "crap" on Dell and Lenovo but honestly I think most of the Lattitude laptops have really good build quality, decent availbility of parts and good longevity.

Lenovo X1 Carbons are far from perfect but they're pretty solid machines and still offer wired Ethernet (albiet via a breakout dongle) and a decent amount of ports. Linux works pretty decently here too.

I never understood what the value add of MSFT's Surface family was/is, supposedly a "first party" portable with Windows with the same quality and engineering as an Apple product but if you look at HOW they go about it they seem to keep missing the point. If you go to Wikipedia and punch in 'Surface' you'll see some crazy big table of devices they've churned out, all with varying degrees of issues.

I have a Surface Pro 2 which runs Debian Linux quite well (like another poster pointed out) so that's cool but it's has a lot of oddities that wouldn't be acceptable had the machine not been free.

Lenovo made an X1 Tablet family that's fanless and is honestly pretty compelling if you need a fanless, "tablet-like" PC that runs Windows. I use mine as a car diagnostics computer and the car software needs Windows.

If I were writing the specs for a "business computer" it'd include being fanless, excellent battery life, plethora of ports incl. legacy USB-A, light-weight and durable. I doubt any Surface will meet that.

Apple MBPs and Apple Airs BTW do NOT meet these criteria either, lack of ports, chunkier / heavier on the MBP line, can't do dual-displays on the Air, macOS really needing 16GB but Apple charging a crazy tax for 16GB+ of RAM, etc.

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#165

Post by seec » Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #121

Ecstatify wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After getting a Mac I’ll never purchase a Windows device again. + Terrible battery + Terrible build quality + Terrible support + Noise of fan having a stroke

Yeah, no. Macs are nice $2000 machines but are nothing special compared to other current $2000 machines. Windows being somewhat bad, yes, definitely. However, the hardware auch as much higher res, OLED, touch, high refresh rate, pen etc. can be very good.

Shhh. Don't break the Microsoft/Windows bashing sentiment, they really need to feel superior with their Apple ePeen. But yes, if you look at the market, 2K in a PC laptop will usually get something better than what Apple would like to sell you. You'll get worse battery life but generally better power for most workloads, and if you use it lightly like all those MacBook fanboys seems to do it won't be nearly as big of a difference they like to claim.

But hey gotta justify the extortionate price somehow...

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#166

Post by seec » Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 1:46 AM UTC

neodymiumphish wrote: post #131

pathartl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I find this to be such a weird argument. Apple does the same crap with iCloud and people put their hardware on a pedestal when it has the same inherent flaws, often for a much higher price. And maybe you share this opinion, I just want to point out that this hardware from MS is relatively benign in the grand scheme of the PC world.

Completely agree that Apple does the exact same stuff with account management and iCloud notifications, but I don’t understand where these arguments keep coming from that Apple is more costly. The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200 Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400 However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same sp…

Well that depends where you buy, and I would argue that buying Surface device outside of sales/special offers is not a very wise decision. Those are MSRP not necessarily the price people will buy them at (unlike Apple).

Even then, a Surface Laptop is somewhere in between a MacBook Air and MacBook pro depending on configuration. Where I live, if you start adding necessary options, at the announced price a SL6 16/512GO is more expensive than a MacBook Air 16/512 (1879 vs 1759 euros) but much less expensive than a base MacBook Pro with 16/512 (2229 euros) and it arguably perform closer to the latter (especially with the dedicated 8GB of VRAM).

Then again, I would not buy them at launch and at the very least one should wait for their consumer-oriented offering.

Where I agree with you, is in Microsoft being almost as idiotic as Apple are with their pricing.

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#167

Post by EarthMephit » Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 2:44 AM UTC

farawayea wrote: post #123

codeulike wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surface is pretty well regarded as I understand it. Microsoft set out to make 'the sortof macbook equivlaent for windows' and largely succeeded. Although obviously macbook remains the champion overall I guess. I'm sorry you had a battery problem. For some of the best Windows hardware on the market, look no further than Microsoft’s Surface brand - WIRED Also: I dont ever see ads in Windows, but I guess somone must be…

Do you sign in with a Microsoft account? If you do, that's probably the reason why you don't see ads in Windows 11. The system settings UI on Windows 11 always shows an ad which says that an account should be used to use office and other apps. Microsoft has updated apps even on Windows 10 to recommend other apps. The Photos app was recommending a video editor app recently. Windows 11 shows ads, suggestions and instal…

> The system settings UI on Windows 11 always shows an ad which says that an account should be used to use office and other apps.

Macs also do this with their iCloud accounts, with little widgets all around the place prompting you to log in to their app store, etc... if you don't have an account. Possibly those prompts or ads are even more "in-your-face" than Windows? Probably most Mac users don't notice them because most just create an account

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#168

Post by EarthMephit » Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 2:55 AM UTC

Ecstatify wrote: post #144

HackerLemon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single windows device ever has "Terrible build quality"? Weird take

€3K Dell XPS - Screen broke (Never left the desk) - “Carbon” started to peel, looks like the laptop has dandruff —— Lenovo https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/lenovo-class-settle... So many relatives/friends buying €800-€1000 devices that become unusable after 1/2 years. Plastic junk.

My SurfaceBook has a better build quality that my MacBook Pro model from the same era (2019) - MacBooks have improved a lot in the last few years though with the new chips I guess?

I prefer the MacOs to Windows, but MacBook hardware was definitely disappointment on this model. I had numerous graphics & power issues on the MacBook Pro, plus touchbar was annoying.

Dell & Lenovo are crap, I've given up on them. Surface is good, and I'm happy with my LG Gram.

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#169

Post by neodymiumphish » Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 3:46 PM UTC

seec wrote: post #166

neodymiumphish wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree that Apple does the exact same stuff with account management and iCloud notifications, but I don’t understand where these arguments keep coming from that Apple is more costly. The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200 Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400 However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same sp…

Well that depends where you buy, and I would argue that buying Surface device outside of sales/special offers is not a very wise decision. Those are MSRP not necessarily the price people will buy them at (unlike Apple). Even then, a Surface Laptop is somewhere in between a MacBook Air and MacBook pro depending on configuration. Where I live, if you start adding necessary options, at the announced price a SL6 16/512GO…

MSRP is the best way to compare. In the US, there are significant deals for Apple devices all the time.

Re: Microsoft Launches Surface Laptop 6 for Business and Surface Pro 10

#170

Post by nytesky » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 1:30 AM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #96

farawayea wrote: post #75

This is the same company which puts ads all over the OS, can't stop trying to upsell people into using onedrive, forcefully signs you into onedrive, syncs your local files into their cloud without consent, tries really hard to not let you sign in with a local account and most likely does other shady things. Their hardware is more or less garbage. My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device. It had other…

Surface is pretty well regarded as I understand it. Microsoft set out to make 'the sortof macbook equivlaent for windows' and largely succeeded. Although obviously macbook remains the champion overall I guess. I'm sorry you had a battery problem. For some of the best Windows hardware on the market, look no further than Microsoft’s Surface brand - WIRED Also: I dont ever see ads in Windows, but I guess somone must be…

My Surface Laptop from 2019 wasn’t supported by Win11 because of TPM limitation (I guess there was a registry hack) but I expect the requirements for Win11 were defined by 2019 for its 2021 release, yet they skimmed on a very expensive prosumer laptop under their own Microsoft brand.