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GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

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Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#121

Post by untog »

cletus wrote: post #114

I've said this repeatedly: Facebook is a high-risk proposition, particularly as an investment (disclaimer: I work for Google). "Intent" as other commenters have noted is a big part of the story but it's not the only story. Search can broadly be broken up into at least two categories: 1. Navigational eg typing "b and h" into the browser; and 2. Informational eg "cheap flights to jamaica". I don't know what the make up…

"There is nothing preventing Facebook from being the next Myspace when something newer, cooler and hipper comes along and the users move on."

I would argue that things like the massive photo collections people have made provide a large level of lock-in. I also suspect that Timeline is the first play in a "all your history, here" move that would make moving to another service very difficult.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#122

Post by anon808 »

kposehn wrote: post #96

That's a $10m account of money wasted by unimaginative people. You can go nuts with FB ads, you just simply have to get past the notion that it works the same way as every other medium. Unlike AdWords, where you bid on someone searching for "Cadillac SRX" in San Jose, FB is all about inception of interest. The goal is to create intent in people through innovative ways; the people that spend the millions and keep doin…

"This is the same story as Google AdWords back in the day."

Not really, adwords pretty much worked from day one, bid for placement was inspired by the goto.com paid search engine model which was minting money back in the 00s if I remember correctly.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#123

Post by MartinCron »

pmorici wrote: post #104
malandrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that." Sure they do... Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!" Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife" Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

You could say that Google responds to your demand while Facebook (at least in potential) creates new demands.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#124

Post by molmalo »

pmorici wrote: post #104
malandrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that." Sure they do... Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!" Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife" Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

Let me ask you something:

When you want to search something, do you first go to your facebook account and tell your friends "hey, I want to learn more about x!" and then go to your favorite search engine, and actually do your search?

I bet you don't.

In your example, if the mom is saying "tonight", it probably means that she wants to see it "tonight" (maybe she doesn't have the time right now). so, they should try to make the ad really visible that very night, so the user (this mum) will see it before she even goes to look for it anywhere else. But that would feel very creepy. She would think "how did they knew I wanted that?". It would feel like if someone is spying her. I think the average people is ok to have ads displayed while searching (maybe they will not even notice that some "results" are ads). But when the ads start having a very direct relation to what people posts, they start to worry about their privacy.

What I mean is... sure, facebook could infer the user intention, but in comparison, a search engine has it almost served.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#125

Post by MartinCron »

jrockway wrote: post #110
dalore wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing branding with direct call to action advertising. Two complete different things and priced differently. Big brands aren't going for the people about to buy a car, they are working way before that. By making you see the brand day after day it becomes ingrained so that when you are ready to buy a car you think GM.

Sure, because with traditional media, that was the best they could possibly hope for. In today's world of online comparison shopping, though, brands can easily close the deal for you with one click. (The fact that you can't buy a car with one click shows how hopelessly behind the industry is.) It is not necessary to have an image of a brand planted in your mind before a purchase. It only matters that you're guided to…

(The fact that you can't buy a car with one click shows how hopelessly behind the industry is.)

Cars are, for most people anyway, the kind of really large purchase that requires a lot more effort and deliberation, not to mention financing, than makes sense to do in one click.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#126

Post by dannyr »

pmorici wrote: post #104
malandrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that." Sure they do... Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!" Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife" Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

That intent is still vague.

Maybe the user will watch on TV. You can't tell if the user is actually looking for a way to watch the show.

If it's on Google though, the intent is much clearer.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#127

Post by kposehn »

ThomPete wrote: post #113
kposehn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. It isn't about intent - it is about interest. > And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a conversion because your intent is still to get back to Facebook as soon as possible and see the rest of Dave's party photos or whatever. Not necessarily. I'm working with a customer right now where I have a 2…

Interest is far from enough anymore and I think your example is an exception to prove the rule. Go watching a movie are such an ingrained part of life for many people and thus we are always "on the look" for a good movie to go watch. But try and do that with a car brand or any other non-commodity and intent suddently becomes the most important factor.

Interest can be quite enough; I'd also say that GM's is the exception instead.

Generally speaking, the majority of online advertising is geared toward interest in the first place because interest leads to intent. Facebook is earlier in the customer acquisition lifecycle as you can grab their interest before the intent, and then they'll go directly to you instead of searching.

This is why Google in general has been so scared of Facebook (not that I think they should be). What is happening is that people are figuring out ways to cut search out of the loop.

Take a look at all those online games you see on FB ads now. I can tell you that most of the MMO ad budget now goes to Facebook as you can easily get people to download the game and start playing, whereas trying to pick people off search for MMO's is obscenely expensive. As search saturates, marketers tend to move towards the point of greatest ROI, which happens to be in the interest phase.

Cars are a tough sell, no matter where you try. I'm not saying that every single type of product works on FB, just that we really should not compare FB to AdWords in the first place.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#128

Post by kposehn »

anon808 wrote: post #122
kposehn wrote: post #96

That's a $10m account of money wasted by unimaginative people. You can go nuts with FB ads, you just simply have to get past the notion that it works the same way as every other medium. Unlike AdWords, where you bid on someone searching for "Cadillac SRX" in San Jose, FB is all about inception of interest. The goal is to create intent in people through innovative ways; the people that spend the millions and keep doin…

"This is the same story as Google AdWords back in the day." Not really, adwords pretty much worked from day one, bid for placement was inspired by the goto.com paid search engine model which was minting money back in the 00s if I remember correctly.

It worked, but people still panned it. FB is the same way :-/

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#129

Post by wvenable »

franciscoapinto wrote: post #84
wvenable wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When watching TV the intent is to watch TV, not purchase soap, a car, or a soft drink. It might be that Facebook's ads are simply the wrong type/style for the kind of interaction people use it for. It does seem like Facebook ads feel like Google search ads.

> When watching TV the intent is to watch TV, not purchase soap, a car, or a soft drink. The difference being that facebook doesn't make you watch a 10 second ad between each one of Dave's party photos.

Could imagine a "Facebook brought to you by Ford" day where the entire interface is skinned -- I think that would be worth a lot of money.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#130

Post by Jare »

pmorici wrote: post #104
malandrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that." Sure they do... Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!" Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife" Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

Most people on Facebook talk about what HAS happened, even if it's just happened on their minds. Their intent is already elsewhere. In your example, that person has mentally scheduled to watch it tonight. If she wanted to watch it earlier, she would be googling it right after posting that to FB.

If FB decides to infer intent from posts right away (when the post's content could be relevant to intent) and adopt a role of 'online assistant' with automatic instant suggestions, that will be creepy and, considering the amount of colorful emotions often present in FB posts, is sure going to cause a few interesting situations. But that's a hugely different product from the Facebook and the ad industry as we know it.

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