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U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#961

Post by kjkjadksj »

eigenspace wrote: post #933
endisneigh wrote: post #129

I assert it is trivial to not buy Apple products, easy to make alternatives to Apple products and easy to buy feature equivalent devices to Apple products. In lieu of this what is the problem? If the government has a problem why not say any code should be able to be run on any device? Honestly I’m curious - what’s the problem? There are android phones that are superior to iPhones and let you run anything you want. Wh…

> I assert it is trivial to not buy Apple products While it is easy to not buy Apple products, I think the thing that often gets missed is that once someone is significantly invested in Apple's ecosystem, getting out of that ecosystem is highly disruptive and difficult. For example, suppose you are a person who for historical reasons owns a MacBook, and iPad, and an iPhone, and a large chunk of your friends group als…

There is no hand forcing you to be so overleveraged in apples products.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#962

Post by blondie9x »

The most dangerous monopoly Apple maintains is iMessage. Everyone hates to be the non-blue message recipient.

The reason customers are loyal to Apple iPhones is simple. iMessage and iCloud.

It is definitely anti-competitive the way iMessage and iCloud function to lock out other cloud backup alternatives and to make subordinate non-iPhone recipients.

Like the lightning cable to USB-C migration. There should be 1 message platform for phones that builds upon SMS.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#963

Post by tpmoney »

standardUser wrote: post #648
Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

> 3. Messaging interoperability The richest company in the world is purposefully generating social and psychology stress for young people so they can edge up their market share just a little bit more. In a just world, people would be imprisoned over this.

Or alternatively in a just world we would teach our children not to be little shits to each other because of their tech choices. I just can't wrap my head around how the whole SMS vs iMessage color thing has become such a dominant "problem". It's been that way for as long as there was any distinction to be made between SMS and non SMS messaging. It's valuable information to the end user, and it's easily dealt with by using any other messaging system other than SMS to communicate, like apparently the entire rest of the world does. But somehow it's too difficult for american teenagers to figure out how to install Signal, or Whats App, or Telegram, or Facebook Messenger, or use email, or Discord, or IRC, or Matrix, or Skype, or Google Chat or literally any other of a few hundred messaging / chat systems that are out there.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#964

Post by dbalatero »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #894
ChuckMcM wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like it reflects similar actions taken against companies that are dominant in a market. The first one I heard about[1] was IBM versus Memorex which was making IBM 360 "compatible" disk drives. IBM lost and it generated some solid case law that has been relied on in this sort of prosecution. In the IBM case it opened up an entire industry of third party "compatible" peripherals and saved consumers a ton of…

Ironic that the worst business decisions (hardware or software lockdowns that pave the way for antitrust suits) come from the business heads.

Long-term thinking isn't super trendy, or even incentivized maybe?

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#965

Post by alt227 »

browningstreet wrote: post #763
endisneigh wrote: post #129

I assert it is trivial to not buy Apple products, easy to make alternatives to Apple products and easy to buy feature equivalent devices to Apple products. In lieu of this what is the problem? If the government has a problem why not say any code should be able to be run on any device? Honestly I’m curious - what’s the problem? There are android phones that are superior to iPhones and let you run anything you want. Wh…

For every thing that the DOJ is complaining about there’s a Google version: Chat, Wallet, Auto, Pixel, etc. This suit reminds me of the phrase, “I’ve been convicted by a jury of my peers… who couldn’t get out of jury duty.” Apple is under the gun because their main competitors (at least Google and Samsung) aren’t as good / successful, even when they have greater market shares. Also, Android is.. ahem.. “open source”.

The difference is that the underlying protocols in those android apps are open, and so can be communicated with by any other app that anyone chooses to write an app.

Apples apps are built on top of proprietary protocols which they do not allow anyone else to use, and so there are lots of features and functionality that can only be used by Apple giving them the edge over anybody else.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#966

Post by sashank_1509 »

I guess this is what it feels like to see the country and institutions you love decay in real time and go to the dogs. The number of HN comments here supporting the government and arguing against Apple boggle my mind, yet I can’t help but notice that I’ve seen this trendline for a while and should honestly be expecting it until something drastic happens.

For those with a more open mind, look at the wasteland of America and try to find the few institutions that houses the most productive, smart and creative people of the world and actively develops and nurtures them. You will find that one of those institutions is Apple, probably the biggest and arguably among the best in the computer industry. Any sane government would decide its first priority is to protect and nurture these institutions as they represent the cream of the crop of institutions in the country. If Apple started in China, you bet the Chinese government would pull all stops to try and subsidize Apple if its business starts to die, that will also kill Apple albeit in a different way. Yet in our government we have decided it’s time to ruin this institution. Quick, what’s the easiest way to take your most productive and motivated employees and make them quit in frustration. Easy, you keep chipping away at their autonomy, narrowing it in scope and replacing all the tasks where they used to think decide with a long complex labyrinthe of rules and processes. Any time they take initiative, make them go through a long and arduous approval by committee and anytime they make an infraction micromanage them in that area for an excessive amount of time. You will find that they will quit in due time.The government seems determined on putting Apple on that diet. In its ideal world, Apple should be another Boeing, a company that exists to embody its regulation. Alas we are fortunately a bit far away from that, Apple I reckon has a few good years of its life left, but I won’t be surprised if we see this happen to the tech industry in 20 years.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#967

Post by gigel82 »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #966

I guess this is what it feels like to see the country and institutions you love decay in real time and go to the dogs. The number of HN comments here supporting the government and arguing against Apple boggle my mind, yet I can’t help but notice that I’ve seen this trendline for a while and should honestly be expecting it until something drastic happens. For those with a more open mind, look at the wasteland of Ameri…

> Apple should be another Boeing, a company that exists to embody its regulation

That is pretty funny because you're right, Apple is becoming another Boeing - a profit-above-all-else corporate asshole and just like Boeing what we need is a hell of a lot more regulation, not less: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#968

Post by harkinian »

brink wrote: post #217

Apple frustrates the hell out of me with their deceptive tactics to create walled gardens while pretending not to. They feign ignorance to keep you stuck and create the illusion of open doors out of their walled garden that are actually broken and they have no interest in fixing. I've been paying for iCloud for my wife's iphone for the last several months because of how difficult Apple makes it for us to export our p…

Doesn't the iPhone present itself just like a camera to any PC? So you can use whatever you'd normally use on Mac or Windows to download the pics.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#969

Post by harkinian »

epolanski wrote: post #621

The number of people opposing these changes in this thread because "it will make their walled garden experience worse" without being able to bring up a single valid reason why would that be is astonishing.

1. Allowing other app stores would immediately mean each app wanting you to go to a separate store. I barely use apps in the first place but would imagine this being bothersome for those who use them a lot.

2. I don't want my phone to run arbitrary code, that's what my Mac is for. People install unknown third-party apps on their iPhones all the time, which is safe enough. Now imagine Apple was forced to make iPhones more like Macs in this respect. When was the last time you installed an unknown third-party Mac app?

3. If the govt does something along the lines of preventing Apple from pre-installing their own apps, or some other way of forcibly informing users that they have alternatives, that's annoying for anyone who uses those default apps anyway.

4. Forcibly opening the iMessage protocol could lead to more spam or hold up Apple adding new features that Android doesn't support. And Apple is going to adopt RCS anyway.

5. Govt regulations on software have historically not done much good for regular users. GDPR got us modal cookie notifications on every site, which some nerds really liked along with the takeout stuff, but most people saw as useless and annoying. Plenty of iPhone users are happy with the status quo.

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