Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#621

Post by Dalewyn » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 2:02 AM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #585

dragonwriter wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Japan can change this on a whim with one meeting of the legislature. They literally cannot. > You think Japan can't change its own laws? It can't amend the Constitution just with a vote in the Diet; it requires a supermajority in both Houses followed by a popular referendum.

Laws are just words on paper. They are irrelevant without people to follow and enforce them. It is very common for Constitutional laws to be suspended in the event of war. Even without suspension, all it takes is a leader with enough support to ignore the law.

Nearly all Prime Ministers and their cabinets in recent history have suffered overall unpopularity and especially so in anything that might even remotely imply the potential for using the JSDF beyond its nameplate purpose.

Which is to say, no: No Japanese leader has had the kind of support necessary to ignore the law.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#622

Post by Dalewyn » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 2:07 AM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #587

dragonwriter wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if we are going to assume “China attacks Taiwan” means “China attacks US bases in Japan” we might ad well assume it means “China preemptively carpets Japan with nukes rendering any Japanese response irrelevant”, but in any case, no one is arguing that Japan would either not react to an actual attack on Japan that left them capable of response or would require Constitutional changes to do so. But “Japan” and “…

Since the US would come to the defense of Taiwan, it would use assets in the region so that includes naval and air assets. The air assets are based in locations such as Guam and Japan (among others). The US would launch sorties from those bases amongst others. Can you think of a scenario in which China would attempt the worlds all-time largest amphibious invasion of Taiwan and then let the US just fly missions and dr…

>Since the US would come to the defense of Taiwan, it would use assets in the region so that includes naval and air assets.

Such use of American forces based in Japan would require consent from the latter, which is not a given.

>Article 4 suggests that the United States will consult with Japan in some manner on how it uses the U.S. troops based in Japan.[1]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_a...

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#623

Post by ericmay » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 2:16 AM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #622

ericmay wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the US would come to the defense of Taiwan, it would use assets in the region so that includes naval and air assets. The air assets are based in locations such as Guam and Japan (among others). The US would launch sorties from those bases amongst others. Can you think of a scenario in which China would attempt the worlds all-time largest amphibious invasion of Taiwan and then let the US just fly missions and dr…

>Since the US would come to the defense of Taiwan, it would use assets in the region so that includes naval and air assets. Such use of American forces based in Japan would require consent from the latter, which is not a given. >Article 4 suggests that the United States will consult with Japan in some manner on how it uses the U.S. troops based in Japan.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperat…

It’s a given in this particular scenario. Otherwise the US wouldn’t be there.

I think it’s a much more probably scenario (however extremely unlikely) that the US would fail to engage if the invasion occurred.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#624

Post by _heimdall » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #617

_heimdall wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly believe we can invent our way into a utopia with no illness, no poverty, etc?

Yes. We're well on our way. https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-condit... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-population-in-extre... https://ourworldindata.org/cancer https://www.vox.com/2014/12/14/7384515/extreme-poverty-decli... https://www.reddit.com/r/OptimistsUnite/comments/1bjaog6/fil...

These links all reference process in specific areas with little or no context otherwise. For example, pointing to grain production increases does not acknowledge the required dependence on chemical inputs, water use, or infrastructure to move grained from large growth areas to those who actually eat it. Pointing to cancer treatment, while hugely important to those battling cancer, says nothing of what will plague us if we ever succeed in eradicating cancer.

If you have links or explanation of how we could possibly get to a world with no illness or suffering I'd be very interested. I'm also not expecting anything as that first depends on somehow already knowing what we don't yet know, like what will kill people once we cure cancer.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#625

Post by _heimdall » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 2:26 AM UTC

gen220 wrote: post #606

_heimdall wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically we haven't paid for new spending in tax dollars since Clinton was in the White House, its hard to say taxes pay for something when its paid for with debt. That said, my point was that the tax payer isn't really paying for it when the tax payer has no say in what is being paid for. If the taxes are collected either under false pretense, or no pretense at all, for what the money will be spent on then the ci…

Acknowledging the complexity inherent in how the U.S. gov't finances initiatives. However, eventually , the buck stops at the taxpayer. Yes, the federal gov't issues bonds to finance their activities (i.e. deficit spending), but the creditworthiness of the U.S. is intrinsically supported by the federal government's capacity to collect taxes from its citizens. Eventually, "we the people" foots the bill. It might be am…

I'm honestly not sure if that is the case anymore. With a purely fiat system we really can't afford to pay off the debt, doing so would remove money from the money supply and could lead to an economic contraction.

I'm no sure what would happen economically if we paid off federal debt in any meaningful amount. I'd be really curious if you have any insights into what that would look like.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#626

Post by shiroiushi » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 3:19 AM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #538

Dalewyn wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Japan can change this on a whim with one meeting of the legislature. You think Japan can't change its own laws? Please have some clue about what you're talking about first: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan#Amendmen... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_96_of_the_Japanese_Con... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Cons... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual…

All that shit is irrelevant. The prime Minister of Japan is actively talking about defending Taiwan if it's attacked. The people of Japan probably won't complain. The US won't complain. South Korea won't complain. And that's not even counting a casus belli that might make it justifiable (e.g. some Japanese citizen in Taiwan gets harmed, or chind sends missiles to US based in Okinawa) What exactly do you think is the…

People like him think there's some aliens who will come to earth and punish the Japanese if they violate the constitution as it's now written.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#627

Post by shiroiushi » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 3:22 AM UTC

democracy wrote: post #477

shiroiushi wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's why authoritarian and/or single-party nations have so much more potential to succeed. It's why China did so well for a while. However, in practice, as we've seen with China and others, authoritarianism only works well when the people at the top are really smart and don't have some major character flaws (i.e., the "benevolent dictator"). Eventually, you get a dictator who's a narcissist or moron or fruit…

You cannot have a dictator who is not a "narcissist or moron or fruitcake" - this is not how human mind works.

Yes, you certainly can. It's happened many times in history, thanks to hereditary rule (i.e., they inherited these positions, they didn't actively seek them). Queen Elizabeth I of England reigned for 40 years and is considered by historians to be a very good ruler. Marcus Aurelius of Rome was also considered very good.

The problem wasn't these rulers, it was what happened after they got old and died and their shitty kids replaced them.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#628

Post by shiroiushi » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 3:26 AM UTC

rebolek wrote: post #483

shiroiushi wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's why authoritarian and/or single-party nations have so much more potential to succeed. It's why China did so well for a while. However, in practice, as we've seen with China and others, authoritarianism only works well when the people at the top are really smart and don't have some major character flaws (i.e., the "benevolent dictator"). Eventually, you get a dictator who's a narcissist or moron or fruit…

Benevolent dictator is still just a dictator. As he grows older, he cares more about staying in power than following current trends. China wanted to prevent this with their 10 year rule for the general secretary but Xi changfed that and that was his biggest mistake. Democracy's weakness (politicians focusing just on next election cycle) is also its biggest strength. It allows change and adaptation.

No, a benevolent dictator is the best form of rule. If he cares more about staying in power than anything else, then he's not benevolent.

There have been many historical examples of benevolent dictators. I can't think of any in modern history. Xi certainly isn't, and never was.

Democracy can avoid the problem of dictatorial systems by allowing the people the ability to get rid of bad rulers, at the expense of usually getting crappy rulers who only focus on the next election cycle, and frequently getting sociopathic narcissists in power.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#629

Post by contrarian1234 » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 5:07 AM UTC

_heimdall wrote: post #608

contrarian1234 wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What your proposing would basically entail countries indefinitely subsidizing a huge fraction of their economies so that everything is made domestically. You would just keep doing it and keep waiting for a war. It would be incredibly inefficient and make things significantly more expensive and your nation would fall behind (see North Korea). More importantly, by eliminating economic interdependence you create a much…

Why do you assume it must be driven by subsidies? Changes in demand can move the needle too, if our consumers prioritize domestic production it wouldn't matter if technically someone could import it for cheaper. If you are going government intervention, they could reach for tariffs and import taxes rather than subsidies. Forcing prices high enough for domestic production is painful at first but would eventually work…

I meant "subsidy" in a more general sense. All goods will be more expensive. More people will be in poverty

Imagine how much more expensive everything would be, and now imagine the cumulative amount of money that represents. Money that could be used to fund education or improve people's lives, or even build armaments if you really are worried about the commies. You're in effect paying an huge "tax"/premium indefinitely for a threat that's very theoretical. In so doing youre seriously slowing down the rate of progress and prosperity

But that goes a bit away from the original point. That even if you want to have a self reliant north Korean model for the economy, chips are not a sensible place to start. You'd probably want your local hospital to be able to run without anything made in China. Going back to 22nm (circa 2014 tech) would be a minor annoyance.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#630

Post by 4gotunameagain » Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 9:19 AM UTC

rabite wrote: post #600

4gotunameagain wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will stop replying to you now. Your judgement is clouded by emotions. Criminals and states are not comparable. I wish you the best.

> Your judgement is clouded by emotions. This is pure ad hominem. My statements are not emotional at all. Ukraine committed no offense against Russia. Georgia committed no crime against Russia before they aided Abkhazian and South Ossetian rebels. Putin committed these offenses unilaterally against these. Russia chose to steal territory and murder hundreds of thousands of people. These are not emotional statements, t…

Sure.