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Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

nytimes.com

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Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#91

Post by kerkeslager »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #78
kerkeslager wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The "choose life at any quality of life" ideology causes immense suffering. Ideally in the long run, this is a step in the direction of keeping people alive with a higher quality of life, but that's unlikely to be this first person's experience.

Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? Even if you're not 25 and healthy and wealthy and happy, I think life is still worth living. Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs. Alternatively if as my mother tells me, I'm doomed to an eternity of un…

> Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion?

Unequivocally yes. I think you are drastically underestimating how bad a life can get.

> Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs.

Exactly, that's why I'm arguing that this person's choice is brave.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#92

Post by kerkeslager »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #79
acchow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors (and society) should not be encouraging this mentality. But individuals surely have the freedom to think like this and make decisions accordingly.

Don’t many religions encourage the complete opposite mentality? Shouldn’t they be censored also?

I don't think censorship is a necessary part of addressing this problem.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#93

Post by selcuka »

egorfine wrote: post #80
whythre wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… does it? It’s a kidney, not a brain. Brain transplants from a pig seem like a pretty obviously bad idea.

But you never know until you try.

You meant until the pig tries. A brain transplant is a misnomer, it's actually a body transplant.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#94

Post by skeaker »

mikeInAlaska wrote: post #52
candiddevmike wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times can you receive a transplant for the same organ? Does scar tissue for at the transplant site?

Speaking for liver transplants, they are a many hour traumatic affair. My daughter lost and received more than her entire blood volume during hers. Initial recovery is extremely immunosuppressed and some of the drugs we had to handle with masks and gloves, and had 4x a day medication schedules. So you couldn't burn through pig livers I believe getting them swapped frequently. My daughter received her liver at age 8 m…

Just curious, about how long does the initial recovery phase last? Congratulations to your daughter by the way, happy you all pulled through.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#95

Post by selcuka »

TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #74

It's easy to transplant a pigney into a human. The hard part is keeping them alive afterward, especially in the long term. It seems like the event is not far enough in the past to know.

Not the same as a human, but transplants to other primates were moderately successful [1]:

> Researchers transplanted kidneys from genetically engineered Yucatan pigs into cynomolgus monkeys such as the one above. The monkeys survived for up to two years with the xenografts.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/monkeys-with-tran...

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#96

Post by macNchz »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #78
kerkeslager wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The "choose life at any quality of life" ideology causes immense suffering. Ideally in the long run, this is a step in the direction of keeping people alive with a higher quality of life, but that's unlikely to be this first person's experience.

Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? Even if you're not 25 and healthy and wealthy and happy, I think life is still worth living. Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs. Alternatively if as my mother tells me, I'm doomed to an eternity of un…

> Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion?

In my opinion having had a firsthand view of what life with major illness, disability, and suffering can be like, absolutely yes.

For an excellent dive into this topic, I highly recommend the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#97

Post by paul7986 »

quasarj wrote: post #69
Ekaros wrote: post #21

What happens to other parts from these genetically modified pigs? Can some be used for other transplants? Can rest be eaten?

I have CKD and need a transplant. I'm keeping an eye on this progress. I hope I get to eat the rest of the pig when I wake up from the surgery, myself. Mmmmm bacon!

As a mild CKD patient 60 to 80 percent fluctuating function (diagnosed at 55 function raised it to average 75 for many years until a recent illness) I avoid all meats except chicken..sometimes turkey. Drink 3 liters of water a day (80 percent of a gallon).

Of course Everyone's ckd journey is different

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#98

Post by djmips »

martinky24 wrote: post #17

It's hard for me to imagine the bravery it takes to sign up for this -- even if you're dying already, something like this is unlikely to result in a peaceful final days on earth (between being a science experiment, the media, optional major traumatic surgery, etc...). The folks undergoing this are incredibly admirable.

It's my experience for those that left this world with kidney failure, that they have already lost when it comes to peaceful final days.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#99

Post by 12bits »

martinky24 wrote: post #17

It's hard for me to imagine the bravery it takes to sign up for this -- even if you're dying already, something like this is unlikely to result in a peaceful final days on earth (between being a science experiment, the media, optional major traumatic surgery, etc...). The folks undergoing this are incredibly admirable.

waiting for a kidney transplant while slogging through dialysis is a brutal experience, the mental and post physical struggle is mad real. I was lucky enough to match with a family member eventually. I can see how on some last resort shit why not try this.

Re: Surgeons transplant pig kidney into a patient

#100

Post by justinclift »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #85
martinky24 wrote: post #17

It's hard for me to imagine the bravery it takes to sign up for this -- even if you're dying already, something like this is unlikely to result in a peaceful final days on earth (between being a science experiment, the media, optional major traumatic surgery, etc...). The folks undergoing this are incredibly admirable.

The patients, the nurses, the surgeons, doctors, researchers. Literally magic. The Indian god Ganesha for example has a head of an elephant and we humans are doing something similar. What an amazing species we are when we are doing something positive.

That's a lot of organ replacement done when you've only got your original head left. ;)
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