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Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

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Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course we're wrong, we can easily prove that enslaving and exploiting them is a bad thing. we know animals are capable of suffering and we know animals do suffer in the conditions we create for them, it's as simple as that.

Why does it matter that they are capable of suffering? This is a serious question. When it comes to morality invariably when you dig down deep enough, all of it is based on human made assumptions. That doesn't invalidate discussions about morality, we just have to be aware that it is built on a subjective foundation. And for the record, I personally suggest a vegan lifestyle, because I believe exploiting animals is m…

Hey, good for you for asking this question despite being on the animal rights side. I wish I could say something useful as an answer. I could snipe at Jeremy Bentham for kicking it off in 1780 with shoddy reasoning: not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer? he says, but this is really a side effect of an argument against slavery and contains no discussion of why reducing suffering is desirable, and he was also responsible for utilitarianism, "the greatest happiness of the greatest number", a fundamentally awkward fundamental axiom - and happiness isn't even identical with the things we tend to think are right - and then you have the problem of animals causing suffering to other animals routinely. But I can only agree that it's a good question.

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#142
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't prove or disprove that enslaving and exploiting animals is a bad thing. As a society we currently answer that with .. take a look at your supermarket. What if we are wrong?

Most animals in the wild live very tough, short lives and have high likelihood that they be killed and eaten by predators, so they live every second of their lives in fear. I am not convinced that when animals are grown by humans in appropriate conditions (i.e. not overcrowded sausage factories), given all the food they need and able to "enjoy" (this is a human emotion, but perhaps they have an analogous "feeling" wh…

predators hunt, humans farm

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#143

> Last year, the team showed a group of parrots how to video call one another, finding that the birds both overwhelmingly enjoyed the activity and could make the calls themselves, when given the option. My heart! There's a separate article dedicated to it: https://news.northeastern.edu/2023/04/21/parrots-talking-vid...

There's also this longer-form article about the parrots learning how to read, request music, etc.: https://news.northeastern.edu/2023/04/28/magazine/cockatoo-p...

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#144
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the upside?

They’re pretty fun and super affectionate! It’s like having a little curious buddy who wants to do everything with you, learns your routine, communicates what’s on their mind, always warns you of scary things and sounds, viciously attacks anything or anyone they think might be a danger to you, and absolutely holds a grudge if you do something upsetting. And they’re smart enough to remember people for many years and l…

Sounds like you have a sun conure

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a strong argument. Denying nature is what we do constantly. We teach our children to shit in a bowl that flushes water instead of shitting on the ground, we teach them to delay their gratification s, we tell them not to use violence, we teach them to ask for consent. All unnatural things to do. Are you saying these are not wise things to do?

Nature is adaptation for survival. I think you're mixing up "the old ways" with "naturally beneficial ways". Your chances of survival and reproduction are much higher with access to modern toilets, delayed gratification, no unnecessary violence, and due to society asking for consent. It's perfectly natural.

So "natural" includes anything artificial, so long as it's adaptive. This is a peculiar definition of the word.

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#146
post #5

Made me think of this video where a parrot is watching YouTube videos it likes, changing to different ones, and seeming angry when ads (or the owner lol) interrupt its video-watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZSNhJcKFf4

Buy this parrot YouTube Premium! I don't know the exact species of parrot this is, but if it has a lifespan of 25 years, a 1 minute ad is like a 4 minute ad for them. Just imagine sitting through that!

It's an Indian ringneck parakeet (aviculture name) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose-ringed_parakeet

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course we're wrong, we can easily prove that enslaving and exploiting them is a bad thing. we know animals are capable of suffering and we know animals do suffer in the conditions we create for them, it's as simple as that.

To "prove" is to derive from a set of consistent axioms. There is no set of universally agreed axioms for badness and in fact the vast majority of people do not even have a consistent set of moral beliefs. Simply changing how you phrase a question can get very different answers (e.g. "conscription" vs "murder slavery" vs "making people defend the country that defends them").

Yes. This doesn't mean that morality is subjective and divorced from reality, mind you. It just means that trying to hone an objective theory of morality will make you unpopular.

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#148
post #10

"Seventeen completed the study; three dropped out after showing slight signs of aggression or a lack of interest during the training period. " Avian rage-quitting? So it's not just humans... I feel better now.

> "after showing slight signs of aggression"

And we do mourn the loss of the research assistants.

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#149
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> humans are still the smartest animal on earth obviously I think this is correct but not obvious. It could be we (I am assuming you are also human :) are just the most ambitious.

https://archive.org/details/mobot31753002909064/page/84/mode... (1658) > Loqui vero eos easque posse, Iavani aiunt, sed non velle, ne ad labores cogerentur : ridicule me hercules. "Indeed, the Javanese say that [the Orang-utans] are able to speak to them, but they do not want to, lest they should be forced to labor (pull the other one it's got bells on)"

"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars, and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man... for precisely the same reasons."

Re: Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them

#150
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most animals in the wild live very tough, short lives and have high likelihood that they be killed and eaten by predators, so they live every second of their lives in fear. I am not convinced that when animals are grown by humans in appropriate conditions (i.e. not overcrowded sausage factories), given all the food they need and able to "enjoy" (this is a human emotion, but perhaps they have an analogous "feeling" wh…

predators hunt, humans farm

Not really, farming is a clever hack that we only learned in the last ~12,000 years [1]

The evidence is that most of our existence we hunted and gathered nomadically.

[1] https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/developmen...

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