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Please Learn to Code

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Re: Please Learn to Code

#101

Post by agravier »

groovy2shoes wrote: post #73
VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

> It requires a computer (or access to one). It requires programs to run your code - free or otherwise. I know what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that you don't need a computer to write programs. I started writing programs with pen and paper back in middle school (before my family owned a computer), and still often do that. Nowadays, most of them do end up being digitized and executed, though. Alonzo Churc…

You're thinking about maths, logic and algorithmic, abstract disciplines that go nicely with programming, coding, or however you would like to call the physical implementation of the mathematical ideas derived using your pencil. Although you could argue about when exactly the step is made from abstraction to implementation, I like to think that it's somewhere between compile time and throughout testing.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#102

Post by wallawe »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #97
edw519 wrote: post #47

Think about it: something I did reached 10,000 actual living people and had an impact (however small) on their life. That would never have been possible if I didn’t know how to code. (ability to code) != (eyeballs reached) I've written blog posts viewed by 100,000 people in one day. I've also written software used by 1 person to save millions of dollars. Both are rewarding, but I'd still rather build something. I thi…

Think about it: something I did reached 10,000 actual living people and had an impact (however small) on their life. That would never have been possible if I didn’t know how to code. != Imply that (ability to code) = (eyeballs reached) I don't think the implication was supposed to be that you can't reach people without knowing how to code, but that in this instance, him knowing how to code gave him the ability to hav…

put * on each side of the word or phrase you are trying to italicize.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#103

Post by bryze »

I have to agree with Jeff Atwood's original post, here. The complexity of modern society is requiring individuals to be more specialized. If anything we need improved communication so that inter-disciplinary projects proceed efficiently. As much as we exalt the individual here in the states, a team almost always surpasses what an individual can accomplish.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#105

Post by orthecreedence »

dholowiski wrote: post #50
VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

True, but mastering a pencil and paper is going to have fairly limited benifits, compared to understanding how a computer works (considering that nearly everything you do has something to do with a computer).

This comment, I believe, completely undervalues the ability to communicate. A lot of the biggest changes in our world, good or bad, were spawned from books and writing. Written communication is still at the heart of our infrastructure. If you think about it, computers are mere vessels for messages. Aside from complex scientific computation and some entertainment, most people use computers for communication and for building things that allow communication.

If you can clearly and passionately describe a change you want to see in the world, you can get a lot of people behind you. Writing does, and always has, helped with this. I'd say being a very good writer can have a lot of benefits.

Now if you pair good writing with good computer skills, you have a the ability to get a powerful message to billions of people =]. I'd say they are both complimentary and extremely useful tools.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#106

Post by sopooneo »

I used to teach physics and the kids who didn't love it would often ask why they had to learn it. I didn't give them any baloney. I admitted that the vast majority of them would never need it professionally. I did point out that logical thinking was important and physics would help them with that. But I think the truth is that science, like most other aspects of a good education in the "arts and sciences" is actually for the benefit of society as a whole.

I would bring in articles from major News outlets and ask my kids to spot the blatant scientific errors. Do you know how many articles report things that clearly violate conservation of energy? It is so rare to see a science article in the mainstream press without errors, that I don't even get surprised anymore.

Having people with basic science knowledge will allow them to be savvier consumers, better citizens, and, in those cases where their lives take them there, vastly better public servants.

Knowledge about programming is not an exact parallel, but I think it's reasonably close. I agree with Atwood that programming is not as foundational as reading, writing, and math, but it's right up there with a few other things that would be very good to teach everyone the basics of.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#107

Post by kamjam »

caleywoods wrote: post #67
VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

Could you make an impact (even if a very small one) on a large number of people over the course of a weekend with a pencil and paper? I've never had a piece of art or drawing save work/time/money for me but we have apps that do this everywhere. Art is an amazing creative outlet and I've seen some awe inspiring drawings/paintings but I've never seen one with a tangible benefit. I think if you asked several highschool…

Could you make an impact (even if a very small one) on a large number of people over the course of a weekend with a pencil and paper?

Gandhi made a huge impact on a vast number of people and all he had was a white cloth and a pair of glasses! (albeit it took longer than a weekend)

Joking aside, if everyone learnt to programme then there would be no need for specific programmers. Yes, it's frustrating when people don't know the basics, but I have no idea what to do when it comes to plumbing. These are very distinct jobs. I take my car to a mechanic for the same reason. I do not need to know how the plumbing in my house works to take a shower, or how an engine works in order to drive my car. Facebook or Amazon do not require their users to understand how programming works.

If your code requires someone to understand the basics of programming then you have failed as programmer to understand your target audience. Granted you have apps that save you work/time/money, but your basic user should not need to understand what is going on under the hood.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#108

Post by platz »

sopooneo wrote: post #106

I used to teach physics and the kids who didn't love it would often ask why they had to learn it. I didn't give them any baloney. I admitted that the vast majority of them would never need it professionally. I did point out that logical thinking was important and physics would help them with that. But I think the truth is that science, like most other aspects of a good education in the "arts and sciences" is actually…

relevant: http://xkcd.com/1050/ "The only things you HAVE to know are how to make enough of a living to stay alive and how to get your taxes done. All the fun parts of life are optional."

If we measured everything by how much we used it professionally, we wouldn't learn music, play sports, or any number of things we focus on in schools.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#109

Post by sopooneo »

pcroom wrote: post #40
kalleboo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think those «buggy, dangerous "mission critical" piles of garbage» are valuable. If there was no VBA, the jobs these scripts were created for would still be done manually, with a mouse, by some secretary somewhere. "Getting a professional to do it" would never enter into the picture when you're talking about a BigCorp with a conservative, limited-budget IT department.

During my internship at a manufacturing company, I knew enough about VBA to record a macro in Excel (just record, no actual coding involved) to automate ~10 minutes of work I had to complete monthly and included step-by-step instructions for how to run the macro and what the macro did. When I came back a year later after graduating, I learned the process was again being done manually because my replacement did not ha…

You hit on an important point: curiosity. Most of the best programmers are deeply curious, and I don't think that can be taught, though I do believe it can be cultivated from an early age.

On the other hand, showing people how to safely experiment in ways they can be sure won't screw things up may be very empowering and allow them to express their creative drive.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#110

Post by orthecreedence »

VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

I agree, and I'd argue that you can program something in 5 minutes, but you can't program something well if you haven't put in years of practice and dedication.

It's just like anything else in the world. Any jerk can grab some paints and make some lines on a canvas, but the ones who take the time to understand art and practice for years are always going to be better. Always.

So should you learn to code? If you're interested in it and you really like doing it, then yes. Otherwise you're going to waste your time and everyone else's time. Coding is just another art form. It's a means of expressing systems that run on computers. If this doesn't excite you, don't do it!

Learn something you're passionate about....because you'll never get really good at something unless you're fired up about it, and what's the point of doing something if you aren't going to completely commit? There's so much in this world to learn and be passionate about, why spend your time learning something you don't care about?

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