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Please Learn to Code

sachagreif.com

41–50 of 151 posts

Re: Please Learn to Code

#41
Sacha, I am a fan of yours and usually like your material, but I just can't agree here. You took so much for granted in this post. Deploying a website that 10,000 people will see is not trivial, whether you personally did it or not. Here's my beef, specifically:

1. You already knew how to design. In fact you are a very talented and well known designer. If you didn't have design skills, chances are a huge huge amount lower that anything you put out will make the rounds - design is super important, and you of all people know that. And that's something you need to learn as well, so tack that on top of the time it takes to learn how to code.

2. Learning how to code != making websites. In fact, they are very different. To make a website, not only do you need to either have a designer on hand or be good at design as mentioned above, but you also need to have a very good understanding of how the web works. That means filesystem structure, http, ftp, domain names, web hosting, then add html and css to the javascript you've been working on. THEN if you want your site to be anything more than static, throw in back end code, databases, web frameworks, etc. on top of that.

This is a MASSIVE stack of things to learn, and I don't know a single person who knows all of this and doesn't work full time doing this stuff. "Learning to code" seems like a cute thing you can make a resolution to work on as a hobby, and maybe it is. You might be able to pick up the bare basics of programming in your free time, if you work hard. But making something significant like you claim here is a completely different deal.

3. You never dispute or even address the main point behind Atwood's article - that while programming is great to learn, the trend that 'everyone should learn to program' as a base skill along with reading, writing, and math is ridiculous. It's nowhere near as important as these other skills, and he makes a number of other valid points as well which I'm sure you don't disagree with. You argument was simply that programming is cool, so you should learn it. Sure, I agree, and I would have said the same if I only read the title of Atwood's article. But I feel like the way you contested it was uninformed and completely missed the point.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#42
I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed.

Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails?

"Ah, but that requires something to create something!" Yeah? So does programming. It requires a computer (or access to one). It requires programs to run your code - free or otherwise. In fact, I'd argue the barrier for entry into programming is SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER than MANY other creative outlets.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#43
"I think everybody should learn to code, for one simple reason: knowing how to code is hugely empowering."

Oh please, before lecturing what everybody should do - first learn some empathy, that will blow your socks off!

Re: Please Learn to Code

#44
post #6

I expected a similar post to hit HN, since I too was shocked by Jeff's comments. However I do not think people should learn to code for the same reason. Sure writing a website is cool, but then again, learning plumbing is cool, which is the basis of Jeff's argumentation. Plumbing can empower you by giving you control over your own house and appliances, etc, etc. I think the real reason people should learn to code, is…

Didn't Jeff make the point that people should be taught "computer skill" for the reasons you just listed? You can learn about the ins and outs of technology without learning to code.

Jeff mentions advocates the need for "a basic understanding of how computers, and the Internet, work". As expected from him, he even insists a second time on understanding how "to get around on the Internet".

This is all great, but I advocate learning how to "code". I think that learning how to plug in your printer, transferring your pictures from your phone to your PC, or being familiar with the latest trendy webapp that automates your microwave's behaviour according to your GPS coordinates (a million dollar idea) is not enough.

I don't think everybody should learn to code, just like I don't think everybody should learn math. Also I become borderline elitist when it comes to coding professionally.

But as far as education goes, I'd like to live in a world where any college (heck, even high school) graduate would be able to read a simple Excel macro or bash script and understand the gist of how it works.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the comparison is apt, because learning plumbing only helps you with plumbing. Whereas coding knowledge can be applied to a lot of fields. To me, there's an argument to be made that coding can be considered (or maybe, will one day be considered) like a life skill on par with reading, cooking, or playing music. I agree it doesn't look like it right now, but I'm sure that a couple hundreds years ago the i…

I am absolutely not arguing agains this. Here's the extract from your text I disagree with: > I can’t think of many other skills that enable you to create something from scratch and reach as many people as knowing how to set up a simple website. > Just last week, I was able to come up with an idea and then launch a site in 2 days. That site was then seen by about 10,000 people in a couple hours. > Think about it: som…

People write text that reaches 1,000,000 people the same day they wrote it.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#46
post #38

I can hear it now, "but hey, during code year I learned how to hello world, why is your estimate so hi, it's not that hard". We should REALLY do this with healthcare. Who needs doctors. All hail self diagnosis year 2013!

All hail basic life saving skills 2013 indeed.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#47
Think about it: something I did reached 10,000 actual living people and had an impact (however small) on their life. That would never have been possible if I didn’t know how to code.

(ability to code) != (eyeballs reached)

I've written blog posts viewed by 100,000 people in one day.

I've also written software used by 1 person to save millions of dollars.

Both are rewarding, but I'd still rather build something. I think that's the most appropriate metric.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#48
It seems to me like there are ulterior motives behind a lot of programmers' hostile attitudes toward non-programmers learning some of the craft. If I didn't know any better (and I don't), I'd say that people think, consciously or otherwise, that it will somehow cheapen their skills or experience if some newbies learn basic development. I disagree. I think that if anything, it will give others more of an understanding and appreciation for what we do.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#50

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

True, but mastering a pencil and paper is going to have fairly limited benifits, compared to understanding how a computer works (considering that nearly everything you do has something to do with a computer).
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