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Is the Job Market Dying?

rachdele.substack.com

111–120 of 198 posts

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#111

This person seems to be sharing anecdotes about the Data Science job market. That field, which exploded over the last decade, has experienced a rapid contraction. Data teams have shrunk and contain far fewer traditional “Data Scientists” and lean more heavily on engineers who orchestrate and plumb data around. Data Scientists have become the “HTML programmers” of the tech bubble. My advice: take a pay cut and pivot t…

What's worse about these anecdotes is that they ignore the obvious. I guarantee you some people are still getting hired for those open job reqs, it's just that when you have a big contraction and now have a ton more applicants for each open role, you're going to have many more anecdotes with people lamenting that "AI has broken the process" or "there are a ton of scams" or "insidious tech trends", because the real answer is just a lot more painful: there were tons of applicants for that job, and the person who was picked wasn't you. And (saying this from experience), that can just really, really suck, and when it goes on for a while it can be very difficult to come to terms with.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#112
post #101
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I feel like "Data Science" was always a Zero Percent Interest phenomenon. It's the software company version of Dogecoin or GameStop or AMC. If you've got free money, why not throw 10mil at the moonshot of discovering a diamond in the rough of your data that revolutionizes your business. For the last 10 years, every data team I've been adjacent to has had a near infinite budget, hired more people than the rest of…

I think that’s a bit harsh – but only so much, as I’ve had to explain basic stats literacy to several consultants – but there’s a common factor to many “AI” initiatives: some executives really want to be able to tell their buddies that they’re doing amazing things, and often believe there are huge untapped opportunities to make or save money which all of the employees they don’t trust haven’t mentioned. In reality, o…

It's definitely harsh, and I want to be clear that I don't think it's innately a bad idea or destined to fail, but when it's easy to throw millions of dollars at a moon shot, trying to spin data straw into gold is worth a shot. It's similar to people trying to make a self-driving car, and how many of those are struggling/ending recently. It's not that there's nothing there, but when loans aren't free, you can't just throw money at it and hope.

It's a field that's just been over-hired because it's been a field where you can go "we're 2 years away from something big" for 10 years and the money was cheap enough to just keep paying people with questionable results or prospects. It doesn't shock me at all that people are having a lot of trouble getting work in the field. Even 8 years ago, going to college job fairs, I almost had to herd away Masters students in ML and Data Science who were already having a hard time getting a job and were resorting to applying for QA positions at web dev companies.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#113
post #60
post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

Interesting you don’t mention a huge option that opened up after 2001 — govt/defense work. There was a huge ramp up in military spending in the 2000s and it was still “tech” work, albeit often of the more “move slow, change incrementally” variety.

I worked a decade in the DoD, and then another decade in various tech companies. I was laid off from a startup 12 months ago.

There are definitely pros and cons of both sides. Here's my take on working for the DoD:

- PRO: Having a long tenure means you really get to know the software systems you're developing, and the people with whom you're collaborating.

- PRO: Lack of commercial / profit pressure lets you focus on what seems good for the country, rather than for stockholders.

- CON: Congress is insane. They still haven't passed a defense budget for FY24. The DoD is the only employer I've ever had that missed payroll.

- PRO/CON: Supporting the U.S.'s military might is good or bad, depending on how it's used. A lot of soul-searching may be required to do the work. But working for the private sector can also feel awful, especially in this age of surveillance capitalism.

- PRO/CON: The pay is okay-ish compared to the private sector (PRO), but there's no potential for major bonuses / RSUs (CON).

- PRO: Layoffs are far less common than in the private sector. There's no boom-and-bust cycle tied to interest rates (AFAIK).

- PRO: The hiring process is 10000x better than what I've endured from the private sector since being laid off about 12 months ago. No LeetCode tests, no 5 rounds of interviews followed by being ghosted. And yet, despite the far simpler hiring process, my corner of the DoD generally managed to hire good people.

- CON: Bureaucracy. It can be soul-sucking. But since leaving the DoD, I've learned that it's just a symptom of massive organizations in general. E.g., I encountered a lot of the same frustrations working at Intel under Brian K and Bob Swan.

- PRO/CON: Physical facilities. At least where I worked, the DoD offices were generally run down compared to typical big-corporation offices. On the other hand, the DoD workspaces weren't under financial pressure to maxize programmers per square foot. So there weren't any open-office floor plans. Everyone at least had a cube, more senior people generally had offices.

- PRO: No significant ageism. If you start working for the DoD, and don't egregiously screw up, you don't need to worry about being laid off because of your age. But beyond that, many of these systems / problem domains have long learning curves, so long-tenured developers generally command a lot of well-deserved respect.

**

Right now I'm actually interviewing for private sector jobs (Microsoft) and DoD jobs. I might have to take an offer from Microsoft because of financial considerations. But I'm also kinda hoping I end up back at the DoD.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about "Dont send us a resume! We aren't a traditional company. Make a crazy video showing us your personality and why you'd be the best person for the job. Costumes are a bonus."

There’s a Black Mirror episode somewhere in here akin to the Hunger Games.

I mean, peddling the bike to keep your vim session going might be good for many of us. Well, at least me.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#115

Every time Americans in tech mention applying to dozens or hundreds of jobs to get any position, Europeans are typically incredulous. This does not appear to be an issue on the other side of the ocean. The problem is that the American hiring culture is uniquely toxic, and this is not at all limited to tech. I read stories of people who are desperately hiring but outsource the application and screening process, only t…

[deleted]

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really a thing happening these days? Sounds horrible.

Oh, it's been happening since 2020. I was offered a few of these HireVues, but I could never finish any because the experience of speaking to a screen like it's a person is so dehumanizing. I believe one of them was from General Motors.

Wow, it's easy for me to say in my current situation but I think if I had to do that I would start considering another line of work.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#117
Where I work we stopped posting jobs publicly and stopped promoting them on job sites. We now get candidates in 4 ways:

• Internal referral – Sometimes a complete miss, sometimes a quick hire.

• External recruiter (rarely) – For some roles their network has been beneficial and we’ve negotiated down to as little as 8% of yearly salary in exchange for a case study or something.

• Direct Targeted LinkedIn Outreach – So much cheaper to pay for LinkedIn Recruiter Lite and reach out to promising candidates. I get a near 100% response rate and it’s been so much faster than twiddling my thumbs waiting and hoping for good applicants.

• Inbound queries through our careers page - We rewrote this to be honest about what it’s generally like to work with us, including what we like and what other people have disliked. Anybody who writes to us directly after reading it is guaranteed a 30-minute conversation to see if they’re a good fit for either now or in the future. I’ve been surprised how many people have found this page and read it.

This has cut our cost to hire for most roles by nearly 70% (also factoring in time cost) compared to promoted posts on job sites. Our time to hire is much faster as well.

Part of the trick is realizing you don’t really need The Best People. Find somebody who you’ve got reasonable confidence can do the job well and make them an offer.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#118

It is very bad for juniors and new graduates. It's fine for seniors and good for seniors who have good skills and connections.

> It's fine for seniors and good for seniors who have good skills and connections.

This has very much not been my experience.

(I imagine we're both drawing from personal experience, so I guess what we really want is some solid data.)

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#120
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.

Negative, ghost rider. I’ve had a fairly consistent 100:10:1 application:interview:offer ratio for about 25 years, including bull and bear markets. It’s a numbers game. There is likely nothing wrong with his resume. You need to have a very wide top-of-the-funnel. There are probably a few Captains Of Industry here on HN who can send 5 resumes out and get 5 offers. These are multiple-standard-deviation outliers.

I've been in the industry for 10 years now. If memory serves I've applied to about 20 companies, had 8 interviews, and 5 offers resulting in 3 jobs. I don't doubt your experience, but it's not a universal truth of how the world works.
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