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Please Learn to Code

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Re: Please Learn to Code

#91

Post by Osiris »

I think the discussion should not be that everyone should learn to code but that everyone should have the opportunity to learn to code, if they want.

We shouldn't be arguing why we should or shouldn't learned coding over other skills, like plumbing.

I praise people that put in work to make learning (such as coding) an easily accessible endeavor for those that want to learn. I would also praise Khan academy and universities that have made learning a variety of skills easily accessible to the people.

As a society, let us push to make education and learning open and accessible to all.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#92

Post by diego »

"knowing to code is hugely empowering."

That is not a good reason to learn to code. Being beautiful and rich is empowering. Being tall and strong is empowering. So what?

A large number of people cannot be beautiful, rich, tall, strong, or good enough coders to feel empowered.

On a completely unrelated note, everybody should learn CPR.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#93

Post by docgnome »

I think I just don't understand a growing population on HN. Since when is programming about building websites? Or desktop apps? Or making money? What happened to ars gratia artis?

Re: Please Learn to Code

#94

Post by jwwest »

What's frightening about the nativity in Atwood's post is that his basic assumption is that the more people know the worse it is. This is in direct contradiction to the fact that generally speaking the more educated people are, the better and stronger our workforce, communities, nations, etc are.

Learning to code != becoming a professional programmer. I can't count the number of times I wished that a graphic designer I was working with had even the basic idea of how HTML works.

Non developers should learn at least a bit of appreciation and even a baseline knowledge of what we do if they work with us on a daily basis. Also, developers need to actually learn some basic design skills to enhance their communications as well.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#95

Post by unreal37 »

A lot of people are confusing "learning how technology works" with "learning to code". I think society would benefit if more people understood how things worked. But not necessarily if everyone could code.

Perhaps learning to code is a gateway to understanding technology. But that's a pretty steep learning curve just to explain to someone how a web page is generated and served.

To keep the plumber analogy, I'd be a better homeowner if I understood what all the pipes in my house do, and the importance of proper care and maintenance. Or when something breaks, how to turn off the water main without calling 911.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#96

Post by timwiseman »

danso wrote: post #64
VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

Yes, but code is the one of the rare things that can multiply your efforts...in the same way that a it'd be useful to be able to construct wheels and levers before the industrial age. But code goes further than that; since so much of our world is now digital, it multiplies these efforts in virtually every field, including the arts (there's a niche to be filled in custom automating the batch processing done in the pho…

This is true, but the same can be said of being a great writer. George Orwell set out to have an impact on the world and he is still doing so long after his death because of the strength of his writing.

The same can be said of being a great orator. Cicero is still known today largely for his oratory skills, and similar skills have served president Obama.

So does being a great biologist and research doctor. Edward Jenner saved countless lives through is work.

Code can multiply your effort, and that is why I code, but it is not the only thing that can, and in fact many technologies exist to multiply the effort in some form or fashion.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#97

Post by jeremyarussell »

edw519 wrote: post #47

Think about it: something I did reached 10,000 actual living people and had an impact (however small) on their life. That would never have been possible if I didn’t know how to code. (ability to code) != (eyeballs reached) I've written blog posts viewed by 100,000 people in one day. I've also written software used by 1 person to save millions of dollars. Both are rewarding, but I'd still rather build something. I thi…

Think about it: something I did reached 10,000 actual living people and had an impact (however small) on their life. That would never have been possible if I didn’t know how to code. != Imply that (ability to code) = (eyeballs reached)

I don't think the implication was supposed to be that you can't reach people without knowing how to code, but that in this instance, him knowing how to code gave him the ability to have an impact.

It seems an important enough distinction to point out.

Edit: didn't make italics Edit 2: Thanks wallawe

Re: Please Learn to Code

#98

Post by VolatileVoid »

caleywoods wrote: post #67
VolatileVoid wrote: post #42

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing, "there's no other field that lets you create something from nothing" vis a vis programming. Look: I LOVE coding. I LOVE programming. I think it's fun and challenging, etc. etc. But it's not the only creative outlet that has ever existed. Have you considered a pencil and a paper? Crayons? Markers? Paints and a canvas? A hammer, some wood and some nails? "Ah, but that requires som…

Could you make an impact (even if a very small one) on a large number of people over the course of a weekend with a pencil and paper? I've never had a piece of art or drawing save work/time/money for me but we have apps that do this everywhere. Art is an amazing creative outlet and I've seen some awe inspiring drawings/paintings but I've never seen one with a tangible benefit. I think if you asked several highschool…

Yes, you can have an impact - a very large impact on a very large number of people with just a pencil and paper. Martin Luther did it.

Of course, that's taking things to an extreme, but you get my point. And sure, it took him longer than a weekend, but I doubt most 'disruptive' works of programming were born in a single weekend.

(EDIT: I'm not sure why Luther's 95 Theses popped into my head above any other body of work. But it's pretty indisputable that it was awfully impactful, and were, largely, just pen and paper (or quill and parchment... whatever :)))

Re: Please Learn to Code

#99

Post by Dn_Ab »

Anechoic wrote: post #75
agentultra wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. You never dispute or even address the main point behind Atwood's article - that while programming is great to learn, the trend that 'everyone should learn to program' as a base skill along with reading, writing, and math is ridiculous. It's nowhere near as important as these other skills, and he makes a number of other valid points as well which I'm sure you don't disagree with. You argument was simply that progra…

As computers permeate more of our everyday lives it becomes necessary to understand them on some level. You can say the same thing about any number of technologies that permeate our (western, and increasingly developed) lives - plumbing, electrical, cars, landscaping etc. While it's true that we should have some understanding of these technologies (checking the fluid levels in a car, snaking s small pipe, running A/V…

Your conclusion on time is exactly why learning basic programming stuff like Variables, If then and For loops are powerful.

That is because unlike plumbing, electrical, cars, landscaping and like reading, writing and numeracy, basic programming augments your cognitive toolkit. In the least, it enhances rigorous and corner case thinking. It also makes learning abstract concepts easier, it allows one to reach beyond analytic solutions of equations and to access large amounts of data and automate the handling of said data.

If a computer can enhance many aspects of people's lives then they get more utility in having more powerful basic mechanisms of interaction for automating a program's behaviour. Having basic computer literacy would have definite positive utility for society.

Learning to program is not like learning to fix a car, it is like learning to drive a car instead of hiring a driver.

Re: Please Learn to Code

#100

Post by EternalFury »

If "learn to code" means "learn that coding is a laborious profession", then yes, by all means, learn to code.

I am definitely wary of people who tell me: - "Why don't we..." - "We just need..." - "How hard could this be..." - "Quickly change it so that..." - "We can always change it later if it doesn't pan out..."

The disconnect between people who know how hard it can be and the people who assume it's as simple as talking about it is way too large as it is.

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