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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#481

Post by bombcar »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #437
dublinben wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't assume that the number of cars is a constant though. As point A and point B become farther apart, car usage goes up. When they become closer together, car usage scales down.

But as point A and point B become closer together, it takes less time to get there by car and then people do it more often. Unless traffic congestion eats the time savings, implying that there is high traffic congestion.

There's a finite number of trips people can practically do - just because they live next door to work doesn't mean they'll commute more than twice each day (close enough people will return for home for lunch perhaps).

As traffic and travel times lessen, people do travel further and more, but only to a point.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#482

Post by itishappy »

smeej wrote: post #169

> The program has allowed Mr. Chaillou and his wife to raise their two boys in the city. But he knows that the future of social housing will always face at least one big challenge: “The problem is that once you get in, you never want to leave.” I think this is the reason so many in the U.S. are skeptical of/resistant to such plans. Why work your butt off for 10 years to get to a place where you can afford a nice dwel…

This is the main reason I'm drawn to Universal Basic Income (UBI). Give everybody a subsidy, regardless of their situation, and the cliff problem vanishes. If you never take away the subsidy, then there's always an incentive to improve.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#483

Post by resolutebat »

maattdd wrote: post #451
OkGoDoIt wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that linked Wikipedia page not contain any cities in China, which in my experience are more dense than just about anywhere else in the world?

What is your experience ? China cities are noticeably less dense than other cities in Asia (Manilla, Delhi..) or even Paris

Most of Manila is an endless sprawl low-rise housing and single-story slums, with a few areas of high-rise buildings (Makati, BGC, etc). In the average large Chinese city, more or less all the housing is high-rise.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#484

Post by em-bee »

harimau777 wrote: post #469
ipaddr wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is filled with high rises. Where are you from?

What do you mean? In my experience outside of the few major cities (New York, LA, etc.) there are only high rises in the very downtown of large cities.

i don't remember any high rises outside of downtown in LA either.

and most of those downtown high rises in most cities are office buildings. New York is really the exception.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#485

Post by throw__away7391 »

darby_eight wrote: post #417
throw__away7391 wrote: post #7

NY is a mess of policy failure and rampant corruption in the implementation of these policies, policies which have for decades been championed by the NY Times, frequently by naive portrayals of policies in Western European countries like this one. Once imported at 5 times the cost and half the quality these become irrevocable subsidies for well connected landlords and administrators. The city needs to get basic thing…

> security Oh come on, the NYPD swallowed 5 billion in public funds, the most of any city on earth. Crime is near an all-time low. Hell, they could probably slash half that budget without causing the crime sprees the NY post implies could happen at any time. This is the worst excuse to avoid funding subsidized housing when the latter would probably have a greater impact on whether people were desperate enough to turn…

This is simply not true.

> they could probably slash half that budget without causing the crime sprees

You're living in a world painted by your politics and oblivious to reality. I plan to return to the city someday if things improve, but things are horrible now and not moving in the right direction.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#486

Post by username332211 »

smeej wrote: post #434
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American culture doesn't like to think about how much of "success" is down to luck Think it's more surprising how little of it is down to luck. Even working slightly harder reaps rewards quickly that outweigh the extra work. It's most just most people are not even putting in the minimum.

I think this only looks true on a local level. It's easy to see why Jimmy pulls ahead of Johnny when Jimmy's working more diligently, but they're starting from a fairly even playing field. A lot of the big cards are just dealt to you. Your parents, your skin, your religion, your school, your intelligence, your health, the neighborhood you grow up in--these things have a huge impact on what you do or don't have to ove…

Is it me or are you going into the "You're no better than me. You are just lucky to have been taught good work ethic by your parents" territory?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#487

Post by rayiner »

dctoedt wrote: post #391
rayiner wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So since rich people need baristas to serve them Starbucks, tax them to enable the barista to live near where she works. That's a good characterization of what's happening. But is subsidizing people to be service workers for wealthy Parisians a good public policy and good use of public funds?

> But is subsidizing people to be service workers for wealthy Parisians a good public policy and good use of public funds? Given that each of us is allotted exactly 8,760 hours in a year: Is it good public policy to force non-wealthy people to spend so many more of those hours in commuting than those who can afford to live closer to their jobs? I live in a small, separately-incorporated city, a few minutes from downt…

> Given that each of us is allotted exactly 8,760 hours in a year: Is it good public policy to force non-wealthy people to spend so many more of those hours in commuting than those who can afford to live closer to their jobs?

Wouldn't it be better to direct public policy and funding to helping create jobs elsewhere and leave the wealthy urban people make their own coffee?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#488

Post by bombcar »

the_gastropod wrote: post #464
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "NOISY FROM WHAT?" Sirens, people yelling, loud music, construction, etc.

Credentials: Lived in NYC for 10+ years Sirens: valid. But those suckers are usually attached to vehicles People yelling: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when someone is yelling, it's some doofus in a car yelling at some other doofus in a car. Loud music: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when there is loud music, it's some doofus playing loud music in their car. Construction: vali…

It varies by area; I remember staying in Brooklyn with a friend and being a few floors up the traffic noise was minimal (constant), few horns, but it seemed an emergency vehicle went by every few minutes.

Most of what I remember of European cities, too, when anywhere near the denser parts.

Part of "city noise" is dependent where you're living, and how new it is. Close, cramped, older building with people arguing above and below and beside you? Not fun. Newer building with excellent soundproofing? Nowhere near as bad.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#489

Post by AnthonyMouse »

the_gastropod wrote: post #464
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "NOISY FROM WHAT?" Sirens, people yelling, loud music, construction, etc.

Credentials: Lived in NYC for 10+ years Sirens: valid. But those suckers are usually attached to vehicles People yelling: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when someone is yelling, it's some doofus in a car yelling at some other doofus in a car. Loud music: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when there is loud music, it's some doofus playing loud music in their car. Construction: vali…

> Sirens: valid. But those suckers are usually attached to vehicles

But they're attached to emergency vehicles. The fire department is not going to wait for the bus when responding to a fire, so you can't actually get rid of this by installing mass transit, and then its prevalence is proportional to density.

> People yelling: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when someone is yelling, it's some doofus in a car yelling at some other doofus in a car.

> Loud music: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when there is loud music, it's some doofus playing loud music in their car.

If people are usually in cars then the people making noise will usually be in cars. But it's not as if they're going to stop having business disputes or lovers' quarrels or whatever it is this time just because they're on foot.

And whether loud music is a problem depends primarily on who your neighbors are. In a city you'll have a lot of them and you don't get to choose who they are.

> car horns

Ironically this doesn't happen in the suburbs because there are more roads and parking per car, and thereby fewer traffic disputes and no need to summon someone from a building immediately instead of parking and going inside. So you're now equally making the case for cities to have wider roads and more parking.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#490

Post by sangnoir »

agucova wrote: post #342
sangnoir wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much my home is worth should not be capped by whatever government thinks What's your take on anti-price-gauging laws? Should the government "cap" the price of food and bottled water after a natural disaster, or should the seller determine how much it's worth, as determined by supply & demand?

Now I'm curious about what's your take on them

I'm generally not against the existence/enforcement of price smoothing laws (over time - as the intention with anti-price-gauging laws, or across the market, with market comparisons). I think it strikes a good balance when bridging the macro to the micro.
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