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United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

cnbc.com

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Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#31

Post by ch4s3 »

genman wrote: post #23
barbazoo wrote: post #11

> The United Nations projects that by 2025, 1.8 billion people will face absolute water scarcity across the world. The Middle East stood out as one of the most water-stressed areas with around 83% of the population in the region prone to experiencing high levels of water stress. > Weather forecasters at the center can observe precipitation patterns in clouds and identify suitable clouds to seed, with the aim of incre…

The weather is not the problem. Overpopulation is. And it is a local problem, so limiting population elsewhere doesn't help.

People screaming overpopulation are always and everywhere on a slippery slope to eugenics.

Carrying capacity is mediated by technology. WRT water, wastewater reclamation and desalination have a lot of gains that aren’t widely deployed. Also rewilding and reforestation can do a lot to mitigate creeping aridity.

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#32

Post by barbazoo »

lukan wrote: post #30
genman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weather is not the problem. Overpopulation is. And it is a local problem, so limiting population elsewhere doesn't help.

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

According to ChatGPT it takes at least 3 kWh to desalinate 1000l of salt-water.

Following that math and its estimates on solar panels that would come down to 0.003 m^2 of solar panels per liters.

UAE is about 83.6 billion m^2, lets assume half of that can be covered in solar panels, so that would be enough to desalinate 13 trillion liters of water.

That sounds like it could be enough for a country like UAE by a factor of 10, if ChatGPT's math is right (probably not) and water can be desalinated instantly (probably not).

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#33

Post by Retric »

lukan wrote: post #30
genman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weather is not the problem. Overpopulation is. And it is a local problem, so limiting population elsewhere doesn't help.

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

Desalination is expensive, but it’s not just about the desalination simply pumping water up hill is costly.

Nevada averages 5,500 ft above sea level. Moving 1 acre foot of water up that high at 100% efficiency takes ~5.6 MWh and a single mid sized farm can use that much water hourly.

Start talking 25 inches of water per year across millions of acres and you’ll need a lot of solar. Worse, commercial reverse osmosis desalination only removes around 95-99% of salt so that farmland is quickly getting degraded.

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#34

Post by dustfinger »

jajko wrote: post #24
dustfinger wrote: post #20

> The NCM said it does not use any harmful chemicals in its operations. “Our specialized aircrafts only use natural salts, and no harmful chemicals,” the organization told CNBC. How many times have companies been wrong about the harm chemicals they use in products have on humans and the rest of nature? How many times have they simply withheld knowledge of harmful chemicals in consumer products or outright lied? I thi…

It shouldn't be absolutely impossible to trust them. If ie those 'salts' are naturally occurring in atmosphere in already reasonable concentration (ie I am sure few atoms of uranium are roaming around me currently, but sure as hell I hope its just few and apart) and they just locally temporarily increase their concentration to seed droplets around dew point. But that's probably about it, anything else and I agree wit…

> If ie those 'salts' are naturally occurring in atmosphere in already reasonable concentration (ie I am sure few atoms of uranium are roaming around me currently, but sure as hell I hope its just few and apart) and they just locally temporarily increase their concentration to seed droplets around dew point.

In this particular case, they are not using anything that is already floating around in our atmosphere. They created some proprietary seeding agent they only refer to as "nano material" and that it contains titanium oxide. Who knows what impact it will have.

> Al Mandous said the center started manufacturing its own seeding agent called nano material, a fine salt coated with titanium oxide, which is more effective than what it uses currently.

Doesn't a seeding agent described as a "nano material" that is coated in tatanium contradict their earlier claim that they "only use natural salts?"

> “Our specialized aircrafts only use natural salts, and no harmful chemicals,”

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#35

Post by blackoil »

Retric wrote: post #33
lukan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

Desalination is expensive, but it’s not just about the desalination simply pumping water up hill is costly. Nevada averages 5,500 ft above sea level. Moving 1 acre foot of water up that high at 100% efficiency takes ~5.6 MWh and a single mid sized farm can use that much water hourly. Start talking 25 inches of water per year across millions of acres and you’ll need a lot of solar. Worse, commercial reverse osmosis de…

Then don't farm in Nevada?? Humans don't consume that much water and lot of it can be recycled.

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#36

Post by ftth_finland »

Retric wrote: post #33
lukan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

Desalination is expensive, but it’s not just about the desalination simply pumping water up hill is costly. Nevada averages 5,500 ft above sea level. Moving 1 acre foot of water up that high at 100% efficiency takes ~5.6 MWh and a single mid sized farm can use that much water hourly. Start talking 25 inches of water per year across millions of acres and you’ll need a lot of solar. Worse, commercial reverse osmosis de…

So don’t do water intensive farming in Nevada?

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#37

Post by yau8edq12i »

djha-skin wrote: post #15

Cloud seeding is illegal in Utah, because you're taking rain that would have fallen on someone else's field and making it fall on your field. Water rights are a serious business here in the desert. It's not that we can't do these things, it's just that it's not always a good idea.

Why are these people farming in the desert to begin with?

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#38

Post by yau8edq12i »

barbazoo wrote: post #32
lukan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

According to ChatGPT it takes at least 3 kWh to desalinate 1000l of salt-water. Following that math and its estimates on solar panels that would come down to 0.003 m^2 of solar panels per liters. UAE is about 83.6 billion m^2, lets assume half of that can be covered in solar panels, so that would be enough to desalinate 13 trillion liters of water. That sounds like it could be enough for a country like UAE by a facto…

If your thought experiment leads you to consider that half the country, or even 5% of the country, should be covered in solar panels, then there a problem somewhere.

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#39

Post by throwaway_08932 »

yau8edq12i wrote: post #37
djha-skin wrote: post #15

Cloud seeding is illegal in Utah, because you're taking rain that would have fallen on someone else's field and making it fall on your field. Water rights are a serious business here in the desert. It's not that we can't do these things, it's just that it's not always a good idea.

Why are these people farming in the desert to begin with?

Because if they weren't, they wouldn't be there?

Re: United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

#40

Post by mrguyorama »

ch4s3 wrote: post #31
genman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weather is not the problem. Overpopulation is. And it is a local problem, so limiting population elsewhere doesn't help.

People screaming overpopulation are always and everywhere on a slippery slope to eugenics. Carrying capacity is mediated by technology. WRT water, wastewater reclamation and desalination have a lot of gains that aren’t widely deployed. Also rewilding and reforestation can do a lot to mitigate creeping aridity.

This doesn't have to be true anymore. Not all "we have too many people" people believe we need to FORCE depopulation. We have strong reason to believe that simply giving people sex ed, ample forms of birth control, and women's rights leads to a self selection of fewer children. Every country that has done these things has seen its fertility drop.

Personally the earth can easily, EASILY, support more than ten billion humans if we stop being so damn stupid about resource utilization. Remember that we already produce an immense oversupply of food. Every human that is hungry is not a resource production problem, but a lack of empathy problem. The earth can only struggle to supply billions of humans if you insist that nothing can happen without a strong profit motive.

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