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People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

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Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#191

Post by underdeserver »

eddieroger wrote: post #30
tejohnso wrote: post #12

Not even sure how you'd start off hating the idea. Less noise, less pollution, shorter commute, cheaper infrastructure, more green, more walking, improved health...I mean...just off the top of my head I'm thinking of tons of advantages. I can't think of a single disadvantage. The only reason I need a car is because the city / neighbourhood is configured around the expectation that everyone has a car.

Because that scenario isn't universal, and while you can't think of a reason, others can. Perhaps someone would rather shop at Costco because they've got a big family and need to buy items in higher quantities. You can't get a Costco in a small city setting, so you need to drive there, and even if you could, shared transit isn't amenable to getting home the types of things you buy at Costco. Or perhaps you wish to ha…

Yeah, but if you make large enough buys in a dense city, getting items delivered is a good option. It's generally much cheaper than in sprawling areas, since a single small delivery truck can probably make 3-4 stops in the same neighborhood.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#192

Post by pbmonster »

bko wrote: post #84
CharlieDigital wrote: post #8

I was back in Taiwan last year after an extended absence. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get around with a combination of the mass rapid transit (MRT) system and high speed rail (HSR). When I was last there, you still needed to take a bus or taxi from TPE to the city center. Now right from TPE airport, you can be in either Taipei city center in 30 minutes (MRT) or on the other end of the island in short order…

Do you have any children? I can't imagine car free city is good when you have two or more young children. For one, groceries are a problem as you likely need to stock more food to cook. Sure you can go to the store every other day but that takes a lot of time and is more expensive. Plus you are on a lot tighter schedule. Most people with kids race home to pick up children and don't want to stop by the store and schle…

> You normally put that in a stroller but that's a huge pain to manage on a bus or subway.

Not in any bus or subway car build in the last 20 years.

In every EU city I rode mass transit in the last decade, all transit vehicles are "low side wagons", meaning you can just roll on from the platform/curb, the doors are wide and the area right behind the door is a large space for wheel vehicles.

People bring wheelchairs, strollers, bikes, ect. without any problems, without needing help getting on. The platforms have elevators, for the people not comfortable taking a stroller onto an escalator.

The only exception I can think of are historic drams, but those are rare.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#193

Post by jimbokun »

lucumo wrote: post #49
vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

> but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away or one 20 kilometers away" I doubt anybody would say "no I want only things far to be forced to use a car". For most people it's not about the supermarket. Those are a dime a dozen and all the same. It's easy to provide those in sufficient amounts everywhere. Now try it with jobs. Not any job, but your job. Is it possible to have you…

> Is it possible to have your job be 5 minutes from your home.

If you live in a major city, yes.

Mid size cities and smaller, this is much more difficult.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#195

Post by Asraelite »

NinjaSaves wrote: post #101
oulipo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a troll? Nothing better than a city without car, it's exactly the reverse: we have pure freedom (and health)

A new government comes in and limits your ability to use it. What now? Car-free cities seem nice until they're used as leverage. No cars means massive power for a tiny number of people. Not everyone is a troll when they disagree with you.

A government can always take away your driver's license. In practice this happens far, far more often than restricting use of public transport.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#196

Post by pbmonster »

fennecbutt wrote: post #187

Yup, everyone's gotta drive to the supermarket in their 9999999 tonne landtank SUV now. It's so bad in London now, traffic is just becoming all SUVs. I'd love for them to be banned, but consumers want SUVs...so there'll never be a ban. There's not even that much space inside an SUV either!! Back in NZ we actually used utes and other large vehicles for what they're actually meant for.

Paris just voted to have tripple parking fees for vehicles heavier than 1.6 tons. Maybe this is the way to go.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#198

Post by danmur »

dml2135 wrote: post #189
piva00 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any children? I can't imagine car free city is good when you have two or more young children. For one, groceries are a problem as you likely need to stock more food to cook. Sure you can go to the store every other day but that takes a lot of time and is more expensive. Plus you are on a lot tighter schedule. Most people with kids race home to pick up children and don't want to stop by the store and sch…

On top of that… cars have only been around for about a century. Plenty of people raised kids before then.

Prove it!

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#199

Post by arlort »

gadders wrote: post #156
vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

Good luck walking 5 mins with 6 or 8 bags of shopping, a five year old and a baby in a pushchair. All these arguments for car-free cities are mostly supported by young, single and childfree urbanites.

You buy 6 or 8 bags or groceries every day?

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#200

Post by giraffe_lady »

throw0101d wrote: post #80
Kalium wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your entire life is based around your car, it's your most important and powerful symbol of autonomy, wealth, and personal liberty. The prospect of someone in government deciding one day that the life you live is no longer welcome and your touchstone is evil is incredibly jarring, at the very least. If you also live in an area where you cannot imagine how you could possibly live without using your car frequently, t…

> […] and personal liberty. Ironic given that driving is not a right—you need a license—and is highly regulated (e.g., insurance), while you can walk and cycle without any of those things. A cop can stop you in an automobile and ask for all sorts of documents, while doing the same walking or on a bus/tram/subway would probably be against most countries' constitutions. See the Oh the Urbanity video '“15-Minute City” C…

> while you can walk and cycle without any of those things.

A few years ago a driver making a right-on-red bumped me in the crosswalk with his car. It was reckless but whatever no harm no foul. But then he got out, incorrectly thinking he had the right of way, and demanded my "papers." He was incredulous and furious that I didn't have insurance papers to show him, or thought I was refusing to. He ended up calling 911 about it, though they didn't come.

Ever since then I can't get some questions out my head. Is that really how he thought it worked or was he just flustered? Do other people think like this? This was a middle-aged guy in a suit in a major city's business district, so presumably some sort of professional. Is he good at his job?

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