I live in a nice little city in the Netherlands, Leiden. I am from the U.K.
I cannot believe people would want to live any other way than with accessible bike paths and walkable streets. It is mad.
People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
111–120 of 345 posts
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away or one 20 kilometers away" I doubt anybody would say "no I want only things far to be forced to use a car". For most people it's not about the supermarket. Those are a dime a dozen and all the same. It's easy to provide those in sufficient amounts everywhere. Now try it with jobs. Not any job, but your job. Is it possible to have you…
Isn't the job thing _easier_ if you live in a denser town? If you have more jobs per km² you're less likely to need to move when you switch job.
Maybe yes maybe no. A lot of the jobs in a big city metro are out in the burbs. Until fairly recently, my company's only office in the area was a 45 minute drive from downtown. There are more tech jobs in the city proper than there were 15-20 years ago when there were approximately zero. But a lot of the jobs in the area are still spread around the suburbs and exurbs.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you a troll? Nothing better than a city without car, it's exactly the reverse: we have pure freedom (and health)
A new government comes in and limits your ability to use it. What now? Car-free cities seem nice until they're used as leverage. No cars means massive power for a tiny number of people. Not everyone is a troll when they disagree with you.
Who exactly do you think maintains the roads that cars need to run on? Or are you bombing around your carmaxxing city in a lifted 4Runner all day just in case you gotta Go Off-Road Because The Government Closed The Roads?
The whole concept is silly on its face.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#114This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.
Exactly. If you're skeptical of gun ownership, go to England and start voicing controversial opinions, or to Australia during a viral pandemic, and see how quickly you realize that "any old fool could be armed" is unbelievably important to ensure everyone keeps their basic ordinary human rights.
If you think "no cars" is a good idea, live under a government that takes away your right to public transport. It may not happen right now where you live, but if they need leverage against you, they could use that, and there would be nothing you could do.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#115This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.
You are already dependent on the government from birth. It is the government that has a monopoly on violence and they are the enforcers of private property.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#116I was back in Taiwan last year after an extended absence. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get around with a combination of the mass rapid transit (MRT) system and high speed rail (HSR). When I was last there, you still needed to take a bus or taxi from TPE to the city center. Now right from TPE airport, you can be in either Taipei city center in 30 minutes (MRT) or on the other end of the island in short order…
I've lived in a number of cities across three continents and I tend to think that the idea of a "car-free" city is a quintessentially North American overreaction to a quintessentially North American problem. Like yes Wired we know that the suburb and the American commute have some serious downsides and the US leaned way too much into this model during a period of high population growth. However it's not like other ap…
It's tricky too, because a lot of "low density suburban wastelands" was already significantly phased out over a decade ago, in a lot of the US anyway.
People hear "suburbs" and imagine a single-family home on 1 to 2+ acre lots -- something that looks like this -> https://st2.depositphotos.com/1658611/5485/i/950/depositphot... . And while that definitely still happens, it's really limited to the exurbs in the US these days, it's not representative of newer suburbs anymore.
The primary style of suburban development built since say 2010 in the US, has really been more like 5 single-family homes on 1 acre, or 10 townhouses on 1 acre, or equivalent. Something that looks like this -> https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/modern-suburbs-17207940.jpg or this -> https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/0... -- which is anywhere from 5x to 20x higher density per acre.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#117This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.
I don't think I follow, can you elaborate?
* Car users are quite dependent on the government for transportation, e.g. the many billions (in the US) of public dollars spent on roads each year. Hard to get around without them!
* Even if we hand-wave that away and assume car users aren't dependent on the government for transportation, surely _everyone_ is dependent for other reasons like enjoying public goods (national defense, clean air and water, rule of law), access to the social safety net, etc.?
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#118Plus car travel is dead time since you’re forced to pay attention to the road at least somewhat. I’d rather have a longer journey that is hands free
I see what you're saying, but long road trips are not that way for me. I am easily lost in my own boredom and thoughts on the road. All my good ideas seem to emerge then.
(Perhaps, unfortunately, to a lesser degree I "multitask" when city driving as well.)
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#119I was back in Taiwan last year after an extended absence. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get around with a combination of the mass rapid transit (MRT) system and high speed rail (HSR). When I was last there, you still needed to take a bus or taxi from TPE to the city center. Now right from TPE airport, you can be in either Taipei city center in 30 minutes (MRT) or on the other end of the island in short order…
Do you have any children? I can't imagine car free city is good when you have two or more young children. For one, groceries are a problem as you likely need to stock more food to cook. Sure you can go to the store every other day but that takes a lot of time and is more expensive. Plus you are on a lot tighter schedule. Most people with kids race home to pick up children and don't want to stop by the store and schle…
I live in a city with two young kids. We do very little driving. We live an easy walk to the grocery store and school. A bus stop is on the corner, with buses every few minutes. A car really isn't necessary, and the kids like taking the bus, though we don't do it often. For longer trips, a backpack gets stuffed with snacks and stuff, and we're good to go. The only thing we use a car for regularly is to get to swimming lessons, which is a bit off the beaten path. None of the things you bring up are a problem for us at all.
Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one
#120You either think mandatory car-free cities are a terrifyingly dystopian idea, or you've never experienced human culture outside of dense urban areas.