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People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

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Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#101
post #90

This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.

Are you a troll? Nothing better than a city without car, it's exactly the reverse: we have pure freedom (and health)

A new government comes in and limits your ability to use it. What now? Car-free cities seem nice until they're used as leverage. No cars means massive power for a tiny number of people.

Not everyone is a troll when they disagree with you.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#102

This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.

Err you're still dependent on government in the case of vehicles, if you use roads and freeways and.. everything related to traffic.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#103
The funny thing that's been happening in the UK about Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) is that there's been lots of press about them being unpopular, driven to a large extent by the current Conservative government who seem to be trying to play to their base. And the threats against people who support them mentioned in the article are real. But rather embarassingly for the government, when they did some proper research it turned out that a large majority of people want them, and they don't have nearly as many negative side effects as claimed once they've bedded in: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/08/low-traffic-...

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#104

This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.

Yes, because we're (hospitals, 911) not (schools) dependent (roads) on (water) each (trash service) other (fire and police services) other (airports) to (finance) start (research) with.

We live in a complex modern world with a lot of dependencies and moving parts.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People mock the soviet way of building neighborhoods but it was miles better. Instead of extensive pointless suburbs where everybody has his house, they built huge 8/10 story buildings. The buildings were surrounded by parks, benches, places for kids to play. People aggregated a lot and everything was relatively close (building taller means you can build a lot closer to downtown). I have lived 6 months in Ohio, Colum…

Why did people buy cars if they didn't need them?

Status symbol, larger shopping (cargo bikes weren't ever a thing due to lack of bike paths), vacation, business.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#106
Italy strikes the right balance by having car-free zones for pedestrian areas. Other cities could really use this approach. In Times Square in New York, you have a major road running right through the main pedestrian area, leading to a bit of conflict. And it's usually Ubers and other vehicles who could've easily gone a different way.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#107
post #90

This whole idea is fucking terrifying. Normalizing not having cars i.e. making people dependent on the government from birth. If you didn't understand what Americans were complaining about with gun laws you will soon.

Are you a troll? Nothing better than a city without car, it's exactly the reverse: we have pure freedom (and health)

true - you feel very free when everything is accessible on foot. Healthier, more centered, less like a bag of potatoes. It's having options, agency. You can live in a car-free city, and still have a car for the stuff you see in the car commercials, just not required for the day2day.

It's counter-intuitive, and I miss it.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#108

So, living in one of those cities (AMS) I have a few takes. I'm not ranting, just expressing my frustration: 1. Cars exists because they are more comfortable. I don't care that biking should better, it's not when it rains sideways, it's cold and windy. Biking sucks. I would pay top money to not be in a bike, not be outside getting drenched, and usually do ubering everywhere to the dismay of Dutch people, 2. Cities de…

I think I agree with all your points, but I also think we should be doing all we can to encourage all those people who can and want to cycle to do so, and to make it as safe and convenient as possible. That's regardless of whether you "allow" cars to still be used. Improving cycling infrastructure is an action that causes benefits and very little in the way of disadvantages.

Any journey that someone makes on a bicycle means one less car clogging up the road. That's an argument that people make who are militantly against cars, but I think it's completely valid even if you think cars are things that are here to stay and you're OK with that. Car drivers should be looking at the people cycling and silently thanking them for making their drive more pleasant because the roads are less busy. But for that to happen, the bicycles need to be able to go on dedicated cycle ways so that cars don't have to slow down to drive around them.

My commute to work is about 45 minutes on the bus. Or 50 minutes walking - that's how much the buses suck, and they're actually fairly good buses as far as buses go. Or it's a 25 minute cycle. It'd be a 10-15 minute drive if there was no traffic and there was actually somewhere to park, which there isn't.

I did spend about 15 years without a car, cycling everywhere I went. It was great. One time I bought a bulky item, and called a taxi for it. I dumped the item in the taxi, told the driver where to meet me, and cycled home. I made it there before the taxi did - the driver looked well annoyed. But I recognise the cars are useful - I have a car now, and it's great for heading out into the countryside in sparsely populated areas to do some hiking. It'd be unreasonable to expect any public transport out there, and the car will always have a place serving those areas.

So, my argument is that we should be making things better for all, not pitting two views against each other.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#109

As someone who has worked in London for many years, the difference is amazing. Biking in the city is now enjoyable, and the air quality is (subjectively, even without the data) dramatically better. There was an incredible resistance to the recently introduced ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) expansion, but I'm incredibly grateful for the sake of my children, if nothing else, that it has been pushed through.

I'm pretty sure I've shortened my life for having lived in zone 1 for so many years due to air pollution.

Cycling around London is also the fastest way for an astounding radius of travel. I can beat uber and the underground for most journeys using a Lime bike.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#110
post #49
post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

> but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away or one 20 kilometers away" I doubt anybody would say "no I want only things far to be forced to use a car". For most people it's not about the supermarket. Those are a dime a dozen and all the same. It's easy to provide those in sufficient amounts everywhere. Now try it with jobs. Not any job, but your job. Is it possible to have you…

I’ve lived and worked in London all my life. Of all the ways I could get to work, driving has to be at the bottom of the list.
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