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Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

plantbasednews.org

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Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#91

Post by Tor3 »

rolisz wrote: post #48
fbdab103 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be missing something. That sounds like encasing some rapidly rotting meat inside more rotting meat. A significantly less appealing turducken. It would take some strong convictions to turn multiple meals now (seal + bird) into a future meal that could potentially be stolen by scavengers.

Think about hakarl: icelandic rotten shark. It stinks to high heaven: I'm not kidding, a colleague brought a small sealed cup to the office and opened it. The whole floor (where 80+ people were seated) stank like crazy. Regular shark meat is poisonous. But if you bury it in the sand and leave it for 6 weeks, the toxin decomposes and humans no longer die from it. But it stinks. How hungry must have those Icelanders be…

Well.. I tried it in Iceland. In a restaurant. Looked like rubber cubes, didn't smell much, but unfortunately it tasted what it looked like (rubber).

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#92

Post by Tor3 »

famahar wrote: post #64

I eat natto (fermented soy beans) every day. It's probably the cheapest and most healthy food you can buy in Japan. I used to hate the smell and texture, but force myself enough times made me gradually enjoy it.

Natto looks somewhat.. strange. But I got used to it very quickly, I absolutely love rice with natto on top. Can't say I've ever noticed much smell.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#93

Post by AlecSchueler »

Tor3 wrote: post #89
berkes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But the parent commentor asked "why". As in: why can a gorilla sustain it's immense needs to build muscles by eating a lot, but humans cannot do this to build a large brain? To ask that question differently: why would humans need to change to meat/fermentation/cooking in order to grow brains, if they could "just" eat more, as other primates do?

Humans (since Erectus) _can't_ eat more. We don't have a big enough ingestion system for that. Our guts are tiny compared to other great apes. We're completely unable to survive on what chimpanzees eat, not to mention gorillas. The fire/cooked food hypothesis (and now this speculative one about fermented food) is that it made it possible to greatly reduce the guts, as well as chewing muscles. More calories and better…

Sounds like "standing up" was the real pivotal moment.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#94

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #62
taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yeah not sure I understand the entire idea behind correctly. To stick with other primates for now. Gorilla's have an obscene amount of muscles; adults need 8000 calories per day, compared to 2000-3000 calories for an adult human. Somewhere, even though they eat low bioavailable food, even though they had to eat all day the heave muscle guys & girls had better chances of survival. Why do we think the brain's need are…

More probably the idea behind is some dill preserves company donated for the research.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#95

Post by chewz »

taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

It seems that humans got Ruminococcus hominiciens (bacteria that is pivotal for brealing down celulosis) only after domesticating cows etc.

> Our evolutionary analysis strongly suggests that R[uminococcus] hominiciens likely originated in the ruminant gut and later transferred to humans, possibly during domestication.

> The human-associated strains possess functional adaptability highlighted by the acquisition of genes that can degrade specific plant fibers of monocots such as maize, rice, and wheat—major components of the human diet.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adj9223

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#96

Post by throwup238 »

0xEF wrote: post #76
depressedpanda wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

Likely more accurate. I'm not sure why anyone thinks any surviving development in an organism is due to this "one weird trick" thing, as opposed to a multitude of factors that rendered that organism fit for their environment, at least enough to pass said development on, anyway. Meat, fermented foods, fire, and a slew of other variables likely played a role. Talking about evolution as though there was some single expl…

> Talking about evolution as though there was some single exploding popcorn kernel that caused change is a pretty narrow take on things.

That’s kind of one of the predominant theories in evolution though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

> Eldredge and Gould proposed that the degree of gradualism commonly attributed to Charles Darwin is virtually nonexistent in the fossil record, and that stasis dominates the history of most fossil species.

The theory deals with the morphology of animals in the fossil record but that’s the gist of it: the actual evolution happens really fast, usually to adapt to a large environmental change, and species enter a stable state where they very slowly change if at all.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#97

Post by HuwFulcher »

depressedpanda wrote: post #68
taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

Plant based "news" is a misnomer unfortunately. They operate as an activist org rather than news. Nothing necessarily wrong with that but they can conveniently leave out facts that don't align with a plant based philosophy.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#98

Post by morgengold »

depressedpanda wrote: post #68
taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

Actually the big evolutionary advantage of humans is that they can thrive on a wide range different diets. Unlike other animals we can almost eat everything.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#99

Post by zvmaz »

The source can obviously biased. I became a vegetarian recently for ethical reasons and the critiques I receive around me center solely on health issues, with the occasional "we are humans, we eat meat!". These have absolutely no bearing on the ethics of vegetarianism or veganism. I understand people want solid arguments from different perspectives, but for me, they are useless.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#100

Post by throwup238 »

berkes wrote: post #88
AYBABTME wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

I ferment a lot, and know of only a few dangers: some rare fruits or veggies can produce toxins when fermenting, but non that I can easily buy in a European market. Spices and some herbs can be dangerous too, but the quantities needed for toxin levels that pose a danger, are insane. Fungi are more dangerous. If something starts growing hair, it's out. Dairy fermentation is more dangerous ¹, and quite hard, so I avoid…

> Alcohol is obviously a toxin too, and rather common in fermentation ;)

Also watch out for methanol. Fruit pectin gets fermented into methanol so using pectase is recommended to break it down, especially if one ferments citrus juice.

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