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Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

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Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#81

Post by famahar »

spidersenses wrote: post #75
famahar wrote: post #64

I eat natto (fermented soy beans) every day. It's probably the cheapest and most healthy food you can buy in Japan. I used to hate the smell and texture, but force myself enough times made me gradually enjoy it.

Strange question, perhaps, but I'm curious because I always wanted to try Nattō: If you eat it regularly, do you also smell like it? I ask because people who eat a lot of garlic (or masala spice) often have strong body odor due to consuming these spices.

I notice the smell a bit. Not sure if anyone else notices my body odor changing. It's pretty common to eat it here in Japan. Do you mean the odor clinging to clothes or some physiological smell change?

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#83

Post by berkes »

toxik wrote: post #78
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah not sure I understand the entire idea behind correctly. To stick with other primates for now. Gorilla's have an obscene amount of muscles; adults need 8000 calories per day, compared to 2000-3000 calories for an adult human. Somewhere, even though they eat low bioavailable food, even though they had to eat all day the heave muscle guys & girls had better chances of survival. Why do we think the brain's need are…

Generally, the great apes are better adapted to plant diets, humans are better adapted for eating meat. Gorillas eat leaves and pith, and A LOT of it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964658/

Yes. But the parent commentor asked "why".

As in: why can a gorilla sustain it's immense needs to build muscles by eating a lot, but humans cannot do this to build a large brain?

To ask that question differently: why would humans need to change to meat/fermentation/cooking in order to grow brains, if they could "just" eat more, as other primates do?

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#84

Post by [deleted] »

depressedpanda wrote: post #68
taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

[deleted]

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#85

Post by lp4vn »

AYBABTME wrote: post #55
hetspookjee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kombucha is another one.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

Explain this story better, please.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#86

Post by guappa »

dekken_ wrote: post #60
AYBABTME wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

Counter anecdote for neutrality, I brew Kombucha and have done for a few years, worst I've done is make vinegar, YMMV

In 20 years a study will tell us how that increases the risk of cancer.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#87

Post by xenonite »

taejavu wrote: post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Josef H. Reichholf, a German evolutionary biologist, writes that the first grain cultivations were not as nutritious and productive as they are today. His thesis is that grains were first used in fermentation – not for food, but alcohol consumption, along with other drug substances like poppy, betel nut, coca and others. Then, storage of these (luxury) goods reduced mobility of hunters and gatherers, which led them to settle down (still eating mostly a hunter and gatherer diet).

His book "Warum die Menschen sesshaft wurden" is summarized in https://oe1.orf.at/artikel/213690/Warum-die-Menschen-sesshaf...

For a scientific journal reference, see "The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Göbekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey", Antiquity (2012), https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X00047840

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#88

Post by berkes »

AYBABTME wrote: post #55
hetspookjee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kombucha is another one.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

I ferment a lot, and know of only a few dangers: some rare fruits or veggies can produce toxins when fermenting, but non that I can easily buy in a European market. Spices and some herbs can be dangerous too, but the quantities needed for toxin levels that pose a danger, are insane.

Fungi are more dangerous. If something starts growing hair, it's out.

Dairy fermentation is more dangerous ¹, and quite hard, so I avoid that.

Alcohol is obviously a toxin too, and rather common in fermentation ;)

In nearly all cases, I'll trust one of the best fine tuned measurement devices to protect humans from toxins: my taste and nose.

(Q: how do you know the milk is beyond it's expiry date? A: Smell it! Far more reliable than a date printed on some package)

¹https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356804/

Edit: another thing to be careful with, are kernels, pits, seeds and peels. Peels can often contain lots of sprayed on chemicals that will probably kill your fermenting bacteria. Pits and kernels can contain insane amounts of toxins that we usually won't eat because they are enclosed. But crushing/long fermenting might release them

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#89

Post by Tor3 »

berkes wrote: post #83
toxik wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, the great apes are better adapted to plant diets, humans are better adapted for eating meat. Gorillas eat leaves and pith, and A LOT of it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964658/

Yes. But the parent commentor asked "why". As in: why can a gorilla sustain it's immense needs to build muscles by eating a lot, but humans cannot do this to build a large brain? To ask that question differently: why would humans need to change to meat/fermentation/cooking in order to grow brains, if they could "just" eat more, as other primates do?

Humans (since Erectus) _can't_ eat more. We don't have a big enough ingestion system for that. Our guts are tiny compared to other great apes. We're completely unable to survive on what chimpanzees eat, not to mention gorillas. The fire/cooked food hypothesis (and now this speculative one about fermented food) is that it made it possible to greatly reduce the guts, as well as chewing muscles. More calories and better nutrients (both cooking and fermentation greatly improves the nutritional value of many foods), and less need of energy for guts is what's supposed to be the driver here (and seafood has also been mentioned as a possible source of important amino acids which is necessary for brain development)

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#90

Post by Broken_Hippo »

vjust wrote: post #7

Fermented foods, especially yogurt, kefir, buttermilk are vital for good health. People buy probiotic pills etc. But all it takes is to buy a tub/can of Greek yogurt. The best snack there is. Medicine is food, food is medicine.

You don't need to have 'greek' yogurt for this. What folks call 'greek' yogurt is really just strained yogurt (you can do this yourself with regular, plain yogurt). Any yogurt with the live bacteria in it will do.
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