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How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

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Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#101

Post by cutemonster »

contravariant wrote: post #25
schneems wrote: post #13

I’m very naive in this space. What percent of water extracted makes its way back into the water table and how long does it take? I assume you lose some to the plant that is harvested and some to evaporation. But how much makes it back?

I'd see what the Dutch water suppliers have to say about it, pumping up ground water and managing the water table is kind of their thing.

Apparently pumping up, yes, managing, less. See this comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39732506

> ... ground water shortages. Reason: farmers like irrigating their land (much of it below sea level) with ground water because it is cheap ...

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#102

Post by cutemonster »

j-pb wrote: post #77
mbgerring wrote: post #75

Why not just tax water-hungry crops?

The bigger issue is that 1/3 of crops are used as animal feed. No matter how water efficient they are, you still need 10x as much of them for the same amount of calories. It'd be much easier and have a bigger impact to just go plant-based.

I've read about that, related to farmers shopping down the rain forest in Brazil (to grow beans for hamburger cows). But I don't think it applies to poor development country farmers?

It's not as if the farmers in India are feeding cows and everyone feasts on hamburgers. And in Yemen, they're growing that qat drug (not meat)

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#103

Post by vitiral »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #74

The problem here is people relying on unsustainable sources of water and then using that water very inefficiently. Relative to farming, cleaning solar panels is a drop in the ocean. In terms of surface area, it doesn't really compare. And of course it doesn't help that people just let the excess water drain away. They pump it up, use it and, then it drains away to rivers and eventually the ocean. Instead, they could…

Cleaning solar panels? Did you read the article? It's about solar pumps enabling aquifer exhaustion when used for agriculture

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#104

Post by ratg13 »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #82
WithinReason wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which species is good at long term thinking?

Many animals move on before they destroy the fields and return later once it's regrown. Probably not much thinking but this is how your species survives. Perhaps humans think too much.

These days I feel like it's more that every attempt at central planning gets weighted down in conspiracy theories.

Sadly though, the public's reaction isn't totally unwarranted due to what has become acceptable behaviour for politicians.

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#105

Post by miohtama »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #74

The problem here is people relying on unsustainable sources of water and then using that water very inefficiently. Relative to farming, cleaning solar panels is a drop in the ocean. In terms of surface area, it doesn't really compare. And of course it doesn't help that people just let the excess water drain away. They pump it up, use it and, then it drains away to rivers and eventually the ocean. Instead, they could…

This is exactly what happens in Spain:

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/02/01/spain-expected-to-...

Agriculture is responsible for 80% of water use. Because water is not market priced for farmers, farmers use very inefficient surface irrigation, causing 50% of water to vaporise.

Then nobody does anything and wishes the government pays them to switch to more efficient irrigation systems.

Edit: Looks like government is doing exactly this - paying farmers to reduce water usage, instead of having a fair price for the water https://www.catalannews.com/drought/item/government-and-farm... Hopefully this leads too a real change is not just a socialist solution kicking can down the road.

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#107

Post by Cerium »

hinkley wrote: post #52
leros wrote: post #36

I know some farmers in North Texas where they are pulling water out of a depleted aquifer. The water is starting to get salty so they're adjusting to salt tolerant variants of their crops. The ground is also starting to drop due to the aquifer draining. It's crazy to see

I did the math once and the amount of water we’ve pumped out of the aquifers worldwide and not replaced is worth more than a mm of sea level rise.

Related: Humans pump so much groundwater that Earth’s axis has shifted, study finds

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/world/pumping-groundwater-ear...

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#108

Post by [deleted] »

lettergram wrote: post #50
Voultapher wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picture a roller coaster where the carts have little steering wheels .. that do nothing. We like to imagine we are in control, but zoomed out we behave quite predictably, chasing that unsustainable growth. I feel you, and I'm not sure how to explain this to children. How honest should we be? I believe there is no version of this that ends well, we are left with outcomes to our decisions on the spectrum of awful to re…

I actually argue the opposite zooming out. Zooming out our trajectory is up and to the right, like a hockey stick. Almost on every level. We’ve done that with all these disasters that have always happened. Almost like we can innovate or something

[deleted]

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#109

Post by cutemonster »

toss1 wrote: post #15
throwaway5959 wrote: post #2

How is this a solar problem? The article clearly states there’s diesel pumps as well that do the same thing.

It is not a solar problem. It is a Tragedy Of The Commons problem. Solar just happens to be an enabling technology. Other technologies that brought cheap power to those areas would have done the same thing, e.g., wind or very cheap diesel (biodiesel?) would have the exact same effect if they happened to arrive first. Putting Solar in the headline and as the culprit is a truly cheap shot. The real problem is that now…

I wonder what other Tragedy of the Commons enablers lie waiting, undiscovered. (AI maybe in some ways can be one?)

> The only solution

But is it really a problem, from everyone's perspective?

Because, if water is scarce, then, those with money become even more important and wealthy -- they're the only ones who could afford really deep pumps? And now they can sell the water, for more and more money. What's not to like about that?

Re: How a Solar Revolution in Farming Is Depleting Groundwater

#110

Post by [deleted] »

itsanaccount wrote: post #54
lettergram wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually argue the opposite zooming out. Zooming out our trajectory is up and to the right, like a hockey stick. Almost on every level. We’ve done that with all these disasters that have always happened. Almost like we can innovate or something

Technocrats on this site are very fond of your argument, so fond that I stored the reply I saw years back when someone else said the same thing. There is no monitoring dashboard for the planet. News articles like this are your warnings. There is no innovation to be had that fixes global aquifer levels. >>> Original Mathusianism should be distinguished from neo-Malthusianism, in that the latter does at least have some…

[deleted]
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