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The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

jmargolin.com

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Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

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Please edit swipes (like "You don't know what you're talking about") out of your comments here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

OK, will do, but of course it's too late to edit this one now.

Oh that's not a problem - the only thing we care about is that you'll follow the rules in the future. I appreciate the good intention.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

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> You don't know what you're talking about. I used CRT for years until 2024 and I've lost count of how many Dell Ultrasharp and Apple LCD screens I've owned. > LCDs were completely unusable until the mid 2000s We're talking about monitors today. 2024. I switched to LCD in the mid 2000's when they became usable. > Yes, CRTs, flicker, it's a feature, it prevents motion blur. You're meant to put them up to 85Hz or so an…

This discussion made me want to refresh my understanding of current Apple monitors and if they have anything to offer. I looked at the Apple Studio Display glossy and matte versions at the Apple store. The matte version uses "nano coating" instead of whatever regular matte LCDs use, and is a $200 addon despite being inferior. -1 The reflections of the glossy screen are far worse than what you get with most (all?) CRT…

Wow. I'm impressed that you were crazy enough to come back and post this detailed review that no one else will ever read.

> and no motion blur which makes them sharper any time you view a moving image (yep I'm aware that you people don't understand this)

I understand they have motion blur. That wasn't my original point.

CRT made me sick. I was forced to use them for years and they fucked my eyesight. LCD resolved that issue.

Absolute zero fucks given to all of your points here. I have to use monitors for work and need something that doesn't torture my eyeballs. CRT is hell if I need to stare at it all day.

> You're a fucking dumbass.

No amount of autistic screeching bullshit will ever convince me to go back to using a CRT for daily work. Cheers.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

#103
post #102
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion made me want to refresh my understanding of current Apple monitors and if they have anything to offer. I looked at the Apple Studio Display glossy and matte versions at the Apple store. The matte version uses "nano coating" instead of whatever regular matte LCDs use, and is a $200 addon despite being inferior. -1 The reflections of the glossy screen are far worse than what you get with most (all?) CRT…

Wow. I'm impressed that you were crazy enough to come back and post this detailed review that no one else will ever read. > and no motion blur which makes them sharper any time you view a moving image (yep I'm aware that you people don't understand this) I understand they have motion blur. That wasn't my original point. CRT made me sick. I was forced to use them for years and they fucked my eyesight. LCD resolved tha…

Well, ironically CRT has less blur than LCD in practice unless you only ever look at still images. Both strain my eyes but CRTs would have much better focus by now if they kept on being developed. And as I said and you didn't understand, flicker on CRTs can be reduced by increasing to whatever rate you want, even 200Hz (although 85Hz should be enough) on a cheap 1999 model I have, and most LEDs in light bulbs and absolutely any appliance etc are already flickering at 120Hz at most, so you're basically just picking and choosing what things you think affect you.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

#104
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You need shorter pulses than 10 or 5 milliseconds to reduce motion blur down to the level of CRTs. 100 Hz would only be sufficient if the BF takes up > 90% of the time, instead of the usual 50%. What causes motion blur is the frame being held for a period of time. BFI merely reduces that time by half. On CRTs, each pixel is only held for 100 microseconds or so.

Hmm, I haven't thought this far into it, what matters is probably how long the persistence of vision of the human is. For the LG CX OLED ( https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_cx_oled ) (oddly one of the only OLEDs that have BFI) we can see they have no problem pulsing the pixels on on for only 3-4ms ( https://tftcentral.co.uk/images/lg_cx_oled/bfi_120_high.png ) (5ms divisions), resulting in these images (which I can…

On second thought I think duration of persistence of vision (or afterimages) doesn't matter, but more the velocity of the object which your eye is following and the amount of angular "resolution" your eye can perceive. If your focus moves X amount while the object is lit, if that distance is more than the angular "resolution" your eye can perceive, it will appear as some blur behind the object.

You made me think about an interesting point I long avoided going into.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

#105
post #98
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know what you're talking about. LCDs were completely unusable until the mid 2000s, even then they were all 60Hz/75Hz with no black frame insertion, which made any animation what so ever, even text scrolling blurred to crap. It took me years to figure out that this was why I suddenly couldn't read any text scrolling on logs on terminals. Yes, CRTs, flicker, it's a feature, it prevents motion blur. You're mea…

Please edit swipes (like "You don't know what you're talking about") out of your comments here. I realize the GP did it first, but that doesn't make it ok to break the guidelines yourself. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Actually people who consistently spread misinformation that powers the corporate racket that normalizes low quality technology deserve to be shamed, you just naively value politeness over correctness, which I am very aware is a huge problem with sites like HN, Slashdot, and Reddit.

Where are you every time some stupid Apple or Tesla user explains how other people are just "poor" so they won't get why their overpriced garbage is so good? Nowhere. You're just an autistic moderator and will always be a bane to society with your social pedantry.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

#106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please edit swipes (like "You don't know what you're talking about") out of your comments here. I realize the GP did it first, but that doesn't make it ok to break the guidelines yourself. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Actually people who consistently spread misinformation that powers the corporate racket that normalizes low quality technology deserve to be shamed, you just naively value politeness over correctness, which I am very aware is a huge problem with sites like HN, Slashdot, and Reddit. Where are you every time some stupid Apple or Tesla user explains how other people are just "poor" so they won't get why their overpriced…

Happily you can make your correct points while still remaining within the site rules, so there's no conflict with correctness. If, however, you continue to break the rules, then we're going to have to ban you no matter how correct you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

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Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motion blur is an area where impulse displays like CRTs still excel compared to sample-and-hold displays like LCD and OLED.

OLED can easily be implemented with black frame insertion. You could even do it yourself at from the GPU/software level given a sufficiently high refresh rate if the monitor units are still too stupid to provide it as a working option. I'm more worried about the terrible spectrum of light they emit as with seemingly all LED tech, and the viewing angle.

My Sony Bravia from 2020 is visible from any angle and can be configured to do black frame insertion.

Re: The Secret Life of XY Monitors (2001)

#108
post #92
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OLED can easily be implemented with black frame insertion. You could even do it yourself at from the GPU/software level given a sufficiently high refresh rate if the monitor units are still too stupid to provide it as a working option. I'm more worried about the terrible spectrum of light they emit as with seemingly all LED tech, and the viewing angle.

In theory yes. You’d need a sufficiently high refresh rate (1000 Hz or better I would guess) and corresponding brightness.

The human eye is only sensitive at about 250hz, and even then it is only for brief flashes, as opposed to continuous motion. 1000hz is overkill.
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