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Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

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Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#51

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

Yeah, the last thing I want is the scurge of Apple, Meta, or any other big tech parasite directly on my face.

They are soulless, passionless, sterile companies with only the goal of market dominance and investor growth. VR is never going to flourish here though I'm sure that won't stop the iSheep lapping it up and buying what marketing tells them to, like the Apple watch.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#52

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

Racing sims are the killer app, because depth perception really helps with sense of speed, and tight corners on a monitor are often outside the field of view and you can't just turn your head to look at them.

Even then, it's not something I can do indefinitely. I've played GT7 on a friend's PSVR2, and sometimes elevation changes in particular tend to mess up the brain for a moment. It's somewhat disconcerting. Also, as someone who wears glasses, there's just no way to make the headset fit entirely correctly, and it tends to slip over time and the view becomes blurry.

Outside of that... control schemes are the major issue for me. You can't just blindly walk around in your room without falling over things, so movement is highly unnatural in VR unless you're in a cockpit. And the various attempts at making the player manipulate something with those hand controllers are just embarrassingly bad. I think this is one of the reason why so many VR games feel like toys you play with once before discarding them as a failed experiment.

The only other killer app are pinball simulations. It's surprising how much depth perception can make it so much clearer what the ball is doing, and the downsides of VR don't matter because you're stationary and only need two buttons.

I like racing sims, so I was interested in VR in the early days, but after experiencing it, I decided for now that I just don't want the associated hassle.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#53

I like my Oculus Rift. But the software is so bad. It is confusing, after a month not using it, I don't know where each setting is. Sometimes I misconfigure, and there is no easy way to reset it and move everything into view again. Hardware is fine for my needs (playing Alyx), but the software looks like somthing bought from seven sources and glued together.

It's gone through so much reshuffling and clearly been kicked around internally between managers/PMs. The earlier versions were much easier to use and the later ones can become quite a nightmare to setup navigating the oculus/meta/facebook account silliness then ultimately it all feels a lot jankier than very early versions of the software both in Rift and Quest respectively. Think if Zuck believes in this going forw…

Yeah it's wildly, embarrassingly bad - to such a point it feels like Zuck must not be using it. Maybe most of his attention is on the AI stuff and the Ray Bans?

There's a ton of half-baked old ideas in the UI, it's extremely confusing. Even basic stuff like trying to add my dad as a friend is super hard to do.

Literally every person I've helped set it up has also had to do a full manual restore (holding down hardware buttons to reset from a boot menu) because they app fails to connect during initial setup or there's some bug with adding payment.

Someone really needs to go into that team and rip lots of stuff out.

Their touch controllers and basic UI navigation are good though.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#54

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

> the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable.

to me, this is the entire point of VR. you want to virtually see something other than what your eyes can see in reality. a situation where you want to be fully immersed into this other space. i totally buy into that.

the confusion of use to me is the AR aspect of it. that's where the limitations take center stage. the limited FOV can't be ignored in AR. my brain buys into the suspension of disbelief for VR, but for AR my brain knows it's my real world, just limited.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#55

> The Apple Vision Pro is the Northstar the VR industry needed, whether we admit it or not I think that sums it up pretty well. More companies should launch products like that!

Incomplete, with a poor launch app ecosystem, dependent on owning another of the company's devices to scan your head to get a rather variable quality of mask fit, and when that phone guesses wrong it costs the customer a further $300 for a second guess? As long as the fans keep paying, I suppose you're right.

you just described the first iPod, iPhone, and iPad. they were right about them. you could see where they would assume the magic would happen again just from hubris.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#56

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

In terms of straight VR I'm completely with you. As someone who doesn't game they hold no attraction.

The disconnection is also my big issue with VR.

However, as an AR platform, whether it's pass-through or some future passive system, I can see a time when I might get one. I can imagine a significantly better version of the VisionPro that replaces my laptop as my "big" computing device.

I think the form factor is the feature. In the same way that my tablet doesn't do anything my laptop can't do, but it's form factor makes it useable in different scenarios. I know people who exclusively use iPad Pros as their all-purpose "big" computing device, never touching a laptop.

Before it becomes widespread I can see it being adopted in specialist situations, many of the same things that the Microsoft AR hardware was never good enough for. Hololens was amazing to experience, but no where near amazing enough to actually be that useful. Passthrough AR like the VisionPro might actually manage it.

I don't think it will become something everyone has, but it will fill a slot in the mix of technology for some people, along with smart-watches, phones, tablets, laptops and desktops. Each appeals to different people.

Now, whether the technology ever quite gets there is the big question for me. I think a lot has to improve in the hardware if they can ever make it something I would want to use on a daily basis.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#57
post #45

> Watching movies in Vision Pro is great at first but most people will stop doing it after the initial novelty excitement wears off Watching TV/movies in virtual reality seemed like such an incredibly compelling idea that we (the Oculus team at Meta/Facebook) built an entire product around that idea — Oculus Go. Launched in 2018, Oculus Go was the biggest product failure I’ve ever been associated with for the simple…

Agreed, I've had my Vision Pro for a month, and I still use it to watch shows/movies and as my portable external display. It has its daily and weekly use cases

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#58
post #45

> Watching movies in Vision Pro is great at first but most people will stop doing it after the initial novelty excitement wears off Watching TV/movies in virtual reality seemed like such an incredibly compelling idea that we (the Oculus team at Meta/Facebook) built an entire product around that idea — Oculus Go. Launched in 2018, Oculus Go was the biggest product failure I’ve ever been associated with for the simple…

Why not? The device has a very similar form factor and the use case is the same, except they’re missing the partnerships with Netflix and YouTube. The Walkman was also an incredibly popular device for years. Not to undersell the iPod, either, but I think the innovation was as much in the distribution channel (iTunes) as the product design.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#59
post #29

There's no consideration of the other "killer app" for VR/AR, porn. Porn is what got VHS to succeed over Beta. Porn is what got CC payments working online. Porn drives a lot of Twitch and other platforms. Apple won't allow porn on its platform, but someone will.

The first is a joke from Tropic Thunder, the second isn't true, but the third is accurate.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#60

I like my Oculus Rift. But the software is so bad. It is confusing, after a month not using it, I don't know where each setting is. Sometimes I misconfigure, and there is no easy way to reset it and move everything into view again. Hardware is fine for my needs (playing Alyx), but the software looks like somthing bought from seven sources and glued together.

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