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'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

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Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#311

Post by epolanski »

dylan604 wrote: post #165

Might be a good idea to make these kinds of statements in a more public manner on the socials. @ing the company your commenting against as well as any local police, FBI, or other pertinent TLAs. Let the opposition know they are no longer operating in the shadows. Of course the TLAs won't actively do anything about it proactively, but maybe it'll give more credence than the grieving friend's say-so later??? Have it in…

On one side I agree with you, on the other, such statements are far from conclusive proof of anything.

Let's make a small mental exercise:

- you end up being a whistleblower against your company

- every of your former friends hates you, your family isn't super supportive either for what you caused to the rest of the family (in reputation, attention, possibly financially)

- you decide to end it

- you leave such statements before ending it to clear your name / further punish the company

I am not saying that this has happened, but people can have millions of motivations and victims being vengeful or lying is actually a surprisingly common phenomenon even though they may really be the victims of the whole situation.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#312

Post by hammock »

sfn42 wrote: post #126
vasco wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put the gun in their hands after you shoot them, as in every movie ever.

Firing a gun leaves residue on your hands etc. They can tell whether you fired it

Perhaps that is why so many suicides, such as that of Gary Webb, involve two bullets from the same gun

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#313

Post by vidarh »

dylan604 wrote: post #165

Might be a good idea to make these kinds of statements in a more public manner on the socials. @ing the company your commenting against as well as any local police, FBI, or other pertinent TLAs. Let the opposition know they are no longer operating in the shadows. Of course the TLAs won't actively do anything about it proactively, but maybe it'll give more credence than the grieving friend's say-so later??? Have it in…

The problem is that even then you'll be able to get people to dismiss it with a "well, but he was mentally disturbed enough to lie about what we did, so clearly he just wanted to get one last dig in when he committed suicide". In other words, I don't think it'd be any significant deterrent to anyone prepared to call in a hit - anyone ready to do that would already have accepted that it will look dodgy and be prepared to counter it by smearing you.

If you want to deter a hit in a situation like that, I think the only way to do that is to ensure you have very significant additional data (or at least convincingly imply you do) and make it clear they'll be released if you "commit suicide".

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#314

Post by tootie »

bamboozled wrote: post #269
whimsicalism wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it still seems more likely than not that these people committed suucide, especially Swartz.

Epstein, no way. He had dirt on almost everyone.

Reread your statement there. "Almost everyone"? Who? As far as we know it was literally nobody. The notion that he has compromising material has been insinuated by people with no first hand knowledge. And if he did, where was it? Where did it go? Why didn't he use it before he got arrested? Who knew he had it? Who knew Ghislaine Maxwell didn't have it and left her alone this whole time? How did they know that sending their elite assassination squad past all the cameras (almost every camera was working) in a federal prison to fake his suicide would ensure the material would never be found? Did anyone even do anything compromising that could have been recorded? We don't know have any proof of any of it.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#315

Post by tootie »

alecco wrote: post #262

Gary Webb vibes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb > Webb is best known for his "Dark Alliance" series, which appeared in The Mercury News in 1996. The series examined the origins of the crack cocaine trade in Los Angeles and claimed that members of the anti-communist Contra rebels in Nicaragua had played a major role in creating the trade, using cocaine profits to finance their fight against the government in N…

Yup. Webb also killed himself many many years after telling his story. His story that was generally considered unreliable and inaccurate.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#316

Post by el_nahual »

dylan604 wrote: post #165

Might be a good idea to make these kinds of statements in a more public manner on the socials. @ing the company your commenting against as well as any local police, FBI, or other pertinent TLAs. Let the opposition know they are no longer operating in the shadows. Of course the TLAs won't actively do anything about it proactively, but maybe it'll give more credence than the grieving friend's say-so later??? Have it in…

I don't know about the game theory of the whole thing.

If a group does want to murder a whistleblower, they presumably want to do it for two reasons:

- To prevent them from testifying further - To scare other potential whistleblowers into not testifying

A public statement of "if something happens to me it wasn't suicide!" is certainly not evidence enough. But it's a strong hint...which is actually the most favorable outcome to the murdering org, since it maximizes the chilling effect of the murder.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#317

Post by whimsicalism »

bitcharmer wrote: post #283
whimsicalism wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, almost all of these are accidents or suicides and people watch way too many hollywood films. The Hastings thing is classic mania for those of us who know people who have experienced that.

The man warned he's not going to commit suicide in case something happens to him and your immediate conclusion is that it was suicide. Interesting line of logic, I have to admit.

Not in the Michael Hastings case being linked.

Also - many, many people commit suicide after saying they never will. if he was shot with his own gun, i think that is much more likely than any other alternative.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#318

Post by everforward »

topspin wrote: post #148
vnchr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was killed between pre-trial deposition interviews pertaining to a trial that is still upcoming.[1] One might speculate he was killed immediately after it was confirmed in a deposition that he had knowledge damaging to Boeing, and he intended to testify in that upcoming trial. [1] https://au.news.yahoo.com/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-...

IANAL. However: SC civil law Rule 32 USE OF DEPOSITIONS IN COURT PROCEEDINGS: (a)(3) The deposition of a witness, whether or not a party, may be used by any party for any purpose if the court finds: (A) that the witness is dead; or etc... This aligns very closely with the Federal rule on the same: Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 32. Using Depositions in Court Proceedings (4) Unavailable Witness. A party may use…

He only made it through the first day of his deposition, he still had another day to go. Anything he was going to say on day 2 is now in the wind. They might also be able to have the deposition thrown out if Boeing wasn't there or had requested a different date (though that would have obviously terrible optics).

My guess is that he was killed, but I don't have a guess whether it was some kind of plot by a higher up at Boeing, a rogue Boeing employee, or some random wackjob that's not involved otherwise. Boeing higher ups have motive, but it does feel too sloppy for a planned hit by a defense contractor. Surely they would have some CIA/FBI contacts who could give them a better plan than a mysterious mid-deposition "suicide". Surely they could rig a car to crash or something that looks more accidental.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#320

Post by whythre »

roenxi wrote: post #275
kashunstva wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> normal people motivated by money… strangle car owners and steal their cars… Those are not in any way normal people. If someone makes it to 16-17 y/o without acquiring that fundamental moral lesson, I would not characterize them as normal, whatever the cause of that failure.

About 3% of the male population has Antisocial Personality Disorder (ie, sociopathy). That could be described as normal - we're talking 1 person in 33. You'd probably meet one at a party. Nature no doubt builds some people to be killers. Now most of them aren't going to kill anyone because that would be dumb. But that is a pretty decent pool of people who would consider the idea for money.

3% strikes me as a pretty extreme minority, which makes it seem like the opposite of ‘normal.’ They might be more common than most people think (IE, 1 in 33), but that isn’t something that makes them normal.
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