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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

theguardian.com

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Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#51

Post by junon »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

I live in Berlin. This isn't true at all. Berlin's underground scene is still quite strong, perhaps just not as strong as it used to be. There's more "in the open" stuff due to the popularity, yes, but there's still plenty of (sometimes literal) underground raves happening.

I'd also argue that the most recent accelerator for the shift in culture in Berlin isn't so much the tourism, but the pandemic. People haven't really been the same since.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#52

Post by [deleted] »

mat0 wrote: post #14
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

Well I can tell you in my totally anecdotal view that the underground scene here is alive and well, you just need to look a bit harder for it ;) It’s true that mainstream media like Instagram and TikTok are bringing the worst of the scene and it’s true that there are now a lot of kids that think that the techno scene is to dress in fetish clothes and film yourself dancing waiting for “the drop”. But this is just capi…

[deleted]

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#53

Post by jamil7 »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

There's still quite a lot of illegal/semi-legal free party scene type stuff going on, especially in summer. A lot of the scene has been pushed outside of the ring, though.

Leipzig is lovely but tiny in comparision, you won't find even remotely as many clubs and parties.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#54

Post by cribbles »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

> the scene is moving towards Leipzig

Speaking as someone who's split ~half my time between Leipzig and Berlin for the last 5 years, this is not true.

Leipzig's club scene is an extension of its university population. It's younger, straighter, whiter, and about two orders of magnitude smaller. People visit the clubs while they're going to school there, then they graduate and move elsewhere. Often to Berlin.

Why does this illusion exist? Because Leipzig is about an hour away from Berlin by train. Berliners visit for a weekend and think "wow, it's like Berlin in the 90s! Still cheap! And look at all these cool young kids at these scrappy clubs -- so that's where the underground has gone!". Then they go back to Berlin and spread the word to credulous out-of-towners, who go on to repeat this truism to people who have never visited either city.

In reality, Berlin's club scene -- both "mainstream" and "underground" -- dwarfs that of any other city. Nothing short of an asteroid hit is likely to change that.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#56

Post by mrtksn »

mahmoudhossam wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: I live in Berlin currently but I've never been a techno person. From what I hear from people who are, the clubs have become basically tourist traps that are unaffordable to locals and some have even been priced out of their original locations so not sure if this decision will help much.

This is happening everywhere and with everything. IMHO its a result of the inflated "elite class", that is people who are well off enough to spend their days with consumption only or they were overpaid.

As a result, these people go everywhere and do consumption and outcompete everyone who is not like them. Then everything gets adjusted to their pleasure and they consume all the resources(being housing, food, entertainment etc).

Also, the supply and demand are not able to stabilize because the money moves around the globe freely but working people can't. So when a cryptobro from Russia moves to Portugal he can consume all the Portuguese resources but he can't bring fellow Russians to work and re-supply. Why wouldn't Portuguese just work harder and make buck by increasing the supply to meet the demand? Well because the cryptobro demands luxury housing, luxury food, massages, cars and cocaine but the Portuguese in the location they moved in are maybe painters, taxi drivers, chemical engineers or doctors and they can't simply start doing this new stuff.

The folks are angry with working class immigrants but most of their troubles are actually due to a-few-millionaires who are not rich enough to do substantial long-term investment but are rich enough to consume like there's no tomorrow.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#57

Post by ryukafalz »

jamil7 wrote: post #55

How exactly does the city and federal Government square this with their plan to build a huge (unwanted) freeway through the city and bulldoze multiple clubs and music venues?

I just looked this up because I was surprised to hear about this. Context for those unfamiliar: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-07/berlin-pl...

This is the kind of mistake that we made in the US decades ago, and the results are plain to see today in any neighborhood bisected by a freeway.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#58

Post by codetrotter »

jamil7 wrote: post #53
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

There's still quite a lot of illegal/semi-legal free party scene type stuff going on, especially in summer. A lot of the scene has been pushed outside of the ring, though. Leipzig is lovely but tiny in comparision, you won't find even remotely as many clubs and parties.

> Leipzig is lovely but tiny in comparision, you won't find even remotely as many clubs and parties.

That’s exactly what someone would say, to keep the tourists away :p

“No, there are no underground raves around here, nor have there ever been, nor will there ever be. Please stay away from this town.”

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#59

Post by filoleg »

carlmr wrote: post #6
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

>Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. It's funny how the (somewhat leftist) techno scene hates on foreigners destroying their tradition. Berlin and Bavaria aren't so far apart after all.

This has nothing to do with foreigners and everything to do with outsiders/passerbys/tourists.

It is basically the techno scene version of gentrification (not talking about the impact or harm or whatever else being comparable between the two, just the mechanics of it), except it is happening with the techno scene instead of housing.

This is not incongruent with your observation about “somewhat leftist” techno scene people hating on outsiders destroying their tradition. It is very similar to the analogous complaints those “somewhat leftist” people would make about gentrification.

A very comparable similar example: Burning Man. Look at how it changed and what people who have been attending it since forever ago are saying. Very similar things, and it obviously has nothing to do with actual foreigners. It has everything to do with “gentrifying” the event, and it just slowly turning into a trust fund glamping larp.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#60

Post by luma »

piva00 wrote: post #21
cookiemonsieur wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is immensely ironic considering that modern house and techno is an invention of African Americans in Chicago. We've truly come full circle. The same thing is being done to hiphop in a similar way.

Just to be a bit pedantic: techno didn't come from Chicago but from Detroit :)

Seems like UNESCO forgot about us in Detroit. Not to worry, we're used to it, and we'll party all the same.
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