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'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

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Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#271

Post by aredox »

kashunstva wrote: post #121
max_ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you heavily under estimate what normal people motivated by money are capable of doing. In my friends highschool, some businesses guy was paying highschool kids (16 - 17 ish) to strangle car owners and steal their cars. They were later caught. Also, watch or read Killers of The Flowers Moon. The problem with planned murder is that it is all hidden, and the details are fuzzy. So there is alot of reasonable doub…

> normal people motivated by money… strangle car owners and steal their cars… Those are not in any way normal people. If someone makes it to 16-17 y/o without acquiring that fundamental moral lesson, I would not characterize them as normal, whatever the cause of that failure.

Go watch the recent movie "The zone of interest".

https://youtu.be/GFNtVaAuVYY?si=jiQlDA9Z1EKnPZ0Z

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#272

Post by thaumasiotes »

sfn42 wrote: post #260
withinboredom wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got your point, but I was making that point that even then, it doesn’t mean anything. Maybe they went to a shooting range that afternoon. Maybe the killer does something to ensure the residue is there. Maybe the killer manipulates them in their sleep. Who knows.

No you still don't seem to get the point. I'm saying the *absence* of gunpowder residue means something, I'm not saying the presence of it means anything.

withinboredom seems to be making the similar but tangential point that, in the same way that absence of gunpowder is evidence [of something] while presence of gunpowder isn't evidence of anything, it's possible to demonstrate that a death was not by suicide, but it isn't possible to demonstrate that a death was by suicide. Same idea, but reversing "which part of the sentence is the variable".

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#273

Post by Hikikomori »

Kluggy wrote: post #136
vnchr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was killed between pre-trial deposition interviews pertaining to a trial that is still upcoming.[1] One might speculate he was killed immediately after it was confirmed in a deposition that he had knowledge damaging to Boeing, and he intended to testify in that upcoming trial. [1] https://au.news.yahoo.com/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-...

I believe in certain cases, a judge may allow the deposition to be entered into evidence in the trial. The time to disappear someone is before their testimony is recorded.

The deposition was ongoing.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#274

Post by ben_w »

sethammons wrote: post #177
sfn42 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing a gun leaves residue on your hands etc. They can tell whether you fired it

I'm not a trained killer, but I have watched some movies. To account for residue, just place the firearm in the corpse's hand, point in a random upward trajectory and pull back on the dead person's trigger finger. Optionally, replace the spent bullet in the gun's magazine. I feel you would have come up with this same solution had you needed to.

My guess is that Hollywood is as inaccurate with regard to homicide and secret assassinations as it is with hacking and programming.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#275

Post by roenxi »

kashunstva wrote: post #121
max_ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you heavily under estimate what normal people motivated by money are capable of doing. In my friends highschool, some businesses guy was paying highschool kids (16 - 17 ish) to strangle car owners and steal their cars. They were later caught. Also, watch or read Killers of The Flowers Moon. The problem with planned murder is that it is all hidden, and the details are fuzzy. So there is alot of reasonable doub…

> normal people motivated by money… strangle car owners and steal their cars… Those are not in any way normal people. If someone makes it to 16-17 y/o without acquiring that fundamental moral lesson, I would not characterize them as normal, whatever the cause of that failure.

About 3% of the male population has Antisocial Personality Disorder (ie, sociopathy). That could be described as normal - we're talking 1 person in 33. You'd probably meet one at a party. Nature no doubt builds some people to be killers.

Now most of them aren't going to kill anyone because that would be dumb. But that is a pretty decent pool of people who would consider the idea for money.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#276

Post by thaumasiotes »

lostlogin wrote: post #56
wordhydrogen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just speculating here but isn’t jumping out a window in Russia usually an implication it was ordered by the Russian state (ex: FSB) while in the US a framed suicides are assumed to be done by numerous non-associated actors. So in one place a single entity is responsible and in another it’s multiple entities. It doesn’t seem surprising to me that there would be an affinity towards a particular method within entities.

> jumping out a window Or a poisoning with a ludicrously rare poison, a strange car crash, a plane falling out the sky, dying at a gulag when you were fine a few days earlier etc etc. It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line.

> a plane falling out the sky

> It’s a very unsafe place when you don’t toe the line.

This one seems less like "it's a very unsafe place" and more like Prigozhin was trying to be killed. He went into open armed rebellion and negotiated a deal where he was exiled to Belarus. Then he went back to Russia, where he experienced a fatal plane crash. He would have to have been a total idiot not to see that coming.† What happened?

† My favorite story in this general vein is what happened with the Mitanni king Tushratta, whose brother the king was killed by a usurper when Tushratta was young. Tushratta inherited the throne, and the usurper, Tuhi, held power as regent until Tushratta came of age.

At which point Tushratta had Tuhi and his coconspirators executed. This was 3400 years ago, but somehow I suspect that even then this wouldn't have been hard to predict.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#277

Post by lukan »

dylan604 wrote: post #147
lukan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of that before. What stands out to me is, that the executive person ordering it, Steve Wymer, was not charged at all, despite making very plain statements: "Wymer texted Baugh that Ina Steiner was a "biased troll who needs to be BURNED DOWN"; that he wanted "to see ashes"; and that Baugh should do "whatever it takes."" I would imagine the same will happen here(if it was murder). Some pawns get executed, w…

It's always hard for that lone wolf to know if it's just a dog whistle or a true call to action. But I'm sure that's exactly the way it's intended to allow for plausible deniability. "I never meant for someone to take me seriously. I was just venting. Locker room talk."

That's the difference between a good and a bad employee. Or rather, the good employee delivers results, (does not get caught) and the boss asks no questions regarding the details.

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#278

Post by iwontberude »

johnohara wrote: post #118

These kinds of things happen and the waters immediately get murky. Even those closest to the person in question are never really 100% sure. Reminds me of the death of journalist Michael Hastings in 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)#... Richard Clarke's assessment seemed to carry the weight of truth. But only to a point. Just enough to engage the suspicions of family and friends, but no…

Also reminds me of ex TYT journalist Michael Brooks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brooks_(political_co...

Re: 'If anything happens, it's not suicide': Boeing whistleblower before death

#280

Post by cwillu »

dylan604 wrote: post #147
lukan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of that before. What stands out to me is, that the executive person ordering it, Steve Wymer, was not charged at all, despite making very plain statements: "Wymer texted Baugh that Ina Steiner was a "biased troll who needs to be BURNED DOWN"; that he wanted "to see ashes"; and that Baugh should do "whatever it takes."" I would imagine the same will happen here(if it was murder). Some pawns get executed, w…

It's always hard for that lone wolf to know if it's just a dog whistle or a true call to action. But I'm sure that's exactly the way it's intended to allow for plausible deniability. "I never meant for someone to take me seriously. I was just venting. Locker room talk."

Fwiw, the dog whistle _is_ the call to action. It's mildly amusing that the connotation has inverted though.
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