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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#981

Post by takerjop »

codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

Because Chinese control American supplies of widgets. You can check out Tesla, Apple, Walmart where they get their goodies from. Or how about Ametican universities. If things are as simple as a tic for tac, the trade inbalance wouldnt be in 200B+ in China favor.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#983

Post by anticensor »

angryasian wrote: post #302

This has nothing to do with all the other nonsense. Pass Data Privacy laws and enforce them.

They want their domestic companies to be able to freely sell data, that is the whole point of their long dance to avoid data protection laws. They would otherwise have already taken inspiration from 150+ countries who have proper data protection law (yes, contrary to popular beliefs, it is not just EU that has a proper data protection framework).

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#984

Post by number_man »

seoulmetro wrote: post #877
basisword wrote: post #143

I'm interested to see how this plays out. TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not sell. The whole thing is interesting to watch from a non-China/US perspective. It feels like a move to make the US government look strong to its citizens. A move that, unusually, can have bipartisan support. It feels like propaganda really. And judging by the co…

China beat them at their own game so now they want to take the ball and run home.

China has certainly beaten the US in banning websites like TikTok.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#985

Post by roncesvalles »

matwood wrote: post #468
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, every person I talk to thinks it's crazy that the US is this close to banning an app because it doesn't like the content. The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself...

It's not about being allowed, but more about being steered. And yes, other social media platforms have similar issues with algorithmic feeds, but they are currently a less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats.

This "being steered" argument is bullshit. Are Fox News and CNN not steering their viewers toward a very specific democratic outcome? TV shows, movies, even books. Every piece of media that you consume wants to influence your vote one way or another.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#986

Post by jiggawatts »

takerjop wrote: post #981
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

Because Chinese control American supplies of widgets. You can check out Tesla, Apple, Walmart where they get their goodies from. Or how about Ametican universities. If things are as simple as a tic for tac, the trade inbalance wouldnt be in 200B+ in China favor.

Maybe it would be more balanced if China allowed US software companies into their country the same way the rest of the world does. (Except Russia, Myanmar, North Korea, and a handful of other similar places.)

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#987

Post by jiggawatts »

harkinian wrote: post #880
AlbertCory wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that they are an enemy. No other argument is necessary. Not free speech, not reciprocity, not that they're an oppressive government. If in 1939 Hitler had tried to buy the CBS radio network, FDR would have stopped him, or the Congress. If it had required a Constitutional amendment, that would have passed easily. Yet we were not at war with Germany (yet).

We aren't at war with China either.

Yeah well, that's just a matter of time in the exact same way that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was predicted over a decade ahead, often by US senators.

E.g.: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/05/we-knew-putin-...

https://www.mccaininstitute.org/resources/in-the-news/icymi-...

Etc...

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#988

Post by tosser123 »

protomolecule wrote: post #722
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice try bro, but US symmetrically responds to the hostile actions of authoritarian governments. If those authoritarian governments wouldn't be desperately trying to destroy the free world, no one would care of their silly apps.

Facebook played its role in spreading of so called Arab spring in 2011 [0]. Now look how Middle East is doing now, more than 10 years later. That's some destruction for you. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media%27s_role_in_the_A...

Was that intentional, or a function of less censorable communication and lots of people getting online. Addressing corruption.

This too is just letting flow?

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#989

Post by motoxpro »

idle_zealot wrote: post #546
motoxpro wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. This is the main thing agaisnt the free speech argument. We have also passed this same law in radio and TV. It's about influence at a mass scale more than anything. I don't know why we would want a foreign ADVERSARY to have free reign.

This framing is all backwards. Americans go to TikTok for content of their own free will. This law effectively prevents Americans from using an information service they prefer. Unless, of course, you want to admit that social media applications, through some combination of peer pressure, advertising, propaganda, manipulation, and deception subvert the free will of some portion of their users. In which case naturally…

You’re talking one level too low in the process.

I’m not arguing if a us citizen should be allowed to use a property controlled by foreign adversary.

I’m arguing should a foreign adversary be able to control such a large US property in the first place?

In my opinion, having a direct line to > 100 million people where they can send push notifications that tell people to contact their government for a specific purpose is not so great. That’s leaving out the more subtle untraceable black box of deranking things their government doesn’t like.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#990

Post by s3p »

Nesco wrote: post #23
andiareso wrote: post #13

I'm a big proponent of free speech and the first amendment, but I agree with the reasonings for banning it or forcing US owners. China most definitely has their hands in the data that TikTok amasses and given its popularity it's not an insignificant risk to U.S. citizens. We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. It'll be interesting to see what legal challenges come up if the bill pa…

Why shouldn’t Europeans do the same with US social networks then?

OP wasn't arguing that.
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