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Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

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Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#281

Post by twojobsoneboss »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #91
memset wrote: post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

I do not wish ill-fortune on my programmer colleagues, but I went indie to run conferences, making very little in comparison [0]: - I've regained perspective on the value of hard-earned money and the plight of the working man AKA majority of America. - I have no sympathy for complaints that you can't find FAANG salaries anymore. Zero. [0] I live in Seattle in a studio apartment, so I'm all right.

God forbid you wish to start a family in Seattle without your partner making bank

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#282

Post by infamouscow »

dlivingston wrote: post #193
infamouscow wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter what the folks in Silicon Valley think. The innovators left Silicon Valley during the pandemic and spread out throughout the country. Those remaining are desperately clinging to a world that doesn't exist anymore, and probably won't ever again.

What innovators are you referring to? SV still seems like the Tech Mecca from where I'm sitting (on the east coast).

I'm referring to people who can simultaneously exist in the present while envisioning the future. They can see a clear pathway to transition from the current state to the desired future state. Furthermore, these individuals possess all the necessary talent, skill, and expertise to make that envisioned future a reality.

The only thing you'll learn at a big tech company today is how to navigate corporate politics and finding ever-more creative ways to avoid paper work and meetings the 10 layers of management above you require to move an icon 1 pixel. Now, people will try to justify that it's because of the scale of big tech, but that doesn't really change the day to day experience. It's really not any different than making washing machine software for GE. The pay and benefits might be better at big tech, but you're not going to be doing anything impressive.

If you go on teamblind.com you'll see Google employees are primarily interested in an innovation they call "rest and vest." I believe it's this innovation that allows their generative AI products to create racially diverse images of National Socialists.

The people that made Google a success have been gone for a long time. Some retired, but most scattered across the country. Many are discovering how different SV is compared to small town USA. These Xooglers are first learning of long standing problems outside of the tech bubble, and they have the creativity and skills to solve those problems. There are many industries that have been is dire need for software excellence, and it's finally happening.

This is good for everyone with the possible exception of the morally bankrupt tech elite in Silicon Valley.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#283

Post by twojobsoneboss »

rhelz wrote: post #169
aryehof wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that “experience” has no value in our industry, unless it is recent experience with some technology, framework, language, and the memorization of those algorithms and data-structures.

You hit the nail right on the thumb. About 10 years ago, I was looking for jobs, and wasn't getting any bites. My wife said "Cut your resume in half. Only show the last 7 years of your employment history." It worked--when it wasn't so obvious that I was a graybeard, I got a lot more interviews. But it was epochally, cosmically sad for me to cut out 15 years of my experience--describing achievement I was really proud…

Really useful advice. More people should see and heed this

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#284

Post by centur »

rossdavidh wrote: post #52

So, as a 56yo who's been programming professionally since 2004, currently having trouble finding enough contract work, a bit of perspective: When there are more openings than qualified people, even when you reduce qualifications to what is actually necessary, it seems like there's "nobody" available. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, it seems like "nobody" is hiring. It's harsh, but it also doesn't take that m…

I'd put it differently - programmers of all levels tried to get into companies where their work is a "profit center", where product of engineers adds to profitability. And not a "cost center", where company sells something else, but spends some of their profits on IT. Latter positions usually associated with a lot of horror stories and uphill battles. Naturally one would avoid them if they can.

So, when outlook is not so great and even profit centers started to cut their OpEx-es too - there is a surplus of engineers on a market and higher competition over positions that are left in profit centers (and those are compensated less). But I don't believe cost center companies actually gave up on IT, they may found different ways to close the need, but they still have some form of IT, either in-house or outsourced/off-the-shelf products.

But it's indeed of humbling moment in time for some engineers, to realize that they were in very very premium position compared to many. And got used to it too much - why build networks and stay in touch, when one receives 10 inbounds from recruiters a day, why keep skills up to date and stay sharp when the moment you're on a market - there is a queue to snatch you off the market, why part your ways on good terms instead of burning the bridges, when there seems unlimited offerings in front of you, so you never want to look behind...

Well, now we know why - to get through the "thin", until next "thick".

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#285

Post by bogantech »

edgyquant wrote: post #180
throwaway4220 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this is about how much the average radiologist makes after 10 years of postgraduate studies

Why do you believe radiologists somehow are more deserving than high level engineers?

Radiologists work as part of a system that saves lives, high level "engineers" work in companies that push ads and collect + sell data on their users

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#286

Post by machomaster »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #269
rangestransform wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, boring old stuff like manufacturing was starved for programmers, and eventually gave up trying to get them. If you wanted to be fully honest, you would have said that they couldn't pony up for programmers, they were only “starved” by their own penny pinching ways.

In many cases it could truly be that programmers aren't worth enough for them to pony up. It isn't that they're being cheap. It's that it doesn't make financial sense. There are plenty of contexts where programmers are useful but still only worth "normal" salaries.

And in such cases using words like "starving" is completely wrong. For starving people, food is not a mere "nice to have".

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#287

Post by lubujackson »

h02 wrote: post #14

And we're having a hard time finding experienced and skilled engineers... trying to hire for a senior nodejs role, over a thousand applicants (most people just hit apply without reading the description, over half are disqualified for not meeting the basic requirements), dozens interviewed, and we've only managed to hire 1 person that seemed close to being qualified, and he quit after 2 months of barely working. We're…

And here I am with 20 years experience, founded multiple companies, hired and managed engineers, been acquired, worked full stack on B2C and B2B with multiple tech stacks, worked on many of successful projects as an IC... and maybe 1 out of 20 job applications make it to an intro call. Even for sub-200k roles looking for 3+ years experience.

But I only have a CS minor, so...

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#288

Post by sneed_chucker »

dysoco wrote: post #245
memset wrote: post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

Consider hiring remote if possible from South American countries like Argentina; just don't go super cheap on the salary, $100-150k/yo still is a lot to us and I'm sure you can get some really good engineers, PhDs, whatever with that salary. You can go lower if you don't need expert-level. I'll not apply because I doubt I'm qualified but if you have a link with the job posting I'd be glad to share with my circle.

Why bother with the legal headache of paying people internationally and a language barrier when you can get good people in the states for $100-150k as long as you're outside of super high COL areas?

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#289

Post by machomaster »

geuis wrote: post #65
bb88 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're first question should be, "How much are you willing to pay?". And if they dodge it, it's not a good sign. Edited to add: Sure, be polite, but don't be trapped into 8/16/24 hours of interviewing over the course of a week/month/months before only to get a below average offer

My first question is usually "Hey, how are you? Good to meet you." Politeness usually leads the way.

So you ask a question, but don't allow for it to be answered (because you don't actually care how the person is) and interrupt him.

This is anything but polite.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#290

Post by sneed_chucker »

dullcrisp wrote: post #98
rhelz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but...out of a thousand applicants--who presumably had college degrees/and or years of experience programming for other companies--there just has to be some who would have been successful at your company. I mean, if you lined up 600 random people grabbed from off the street, you'd find 6 to 10 of them with a genius level IQ. In fact, you'd have a good chance of finding somebody smar…

New hiring process: sample 600 people from the population at random, administer IQ tests, hire highest scorer. Voila, only geniuses!

A lot of technical interviewing is thinly veiled IQ testing
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