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The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

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161–170 of 302 posts

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#161
Here's a revolutionary idea: let's make bankruptcy easier.

I've paid more than I borrowed, and I still owe more than I've paid. I have dozens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, and I'm on the doorstep of defaulting on some of it.

Mark Cuban's right. The money is insanely easy for everyone to get. Sallie Mae, AES, and the rest are happy to give students money. Colleges are happy to take money from students, and pass or fail (I failed), bad situation or not, the guarantors will get their money from the student. Legally, you can't escape that loan via bankruptcy. The guarantor can even garnish your wages.

I don't WANT to support bankruptcy. I certainly didn't think I'd be in the situation to have looked into it when I took that first loan out in 2002. But a funny thing happened on October 17, 2005. On that date, all federal student loans, even private ones, became effectively immune to dismissal via bankruptcy.

Now, the law still says "excepting such debt from discharge under this paragraph would impose an undue hardship on the debtor and the debtor's dependents", but call a lawyer. They will tell you, flatly, "you can't dismiss any federal student loan debt through bankruptcy." Not "it's hard", but "you can't". (Seriously, call one up for free and ask if they handle bankruptcy cases with large amounts of student loan debt.)

As it is, currently the only loser in the system is the borrower. The school gets their money up front, the lender gets theirs from the guarantor, and the guarantor gets theirs from the borrower, even when it's blood from a stone.

1/5th of students default on their debt. That's not even counting those that make payments, but are barely getting by. Let people get out from their student loan debt, and, well, I'm not talking about dumping a trillion dollars into the economy. But many people who can barely make rent (or those like me who can't), are suddenly covered. I'm off couches and renting an apartment. People in apartments are buying homes. People scraping buy are making leisure purchases.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#162
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck college. It's not the only way to learn, to meet people, or to show your expertise, capabilities and accomplishments anymore. We have this thing called the Internet now. Write a book. Put a PDF online. Record a video of yourself giving an intelligent speech or showing some useful talent. Put it on YouTube. Write software. Put on GitHub. Answer technical questions well on StackExchange (or whatever for your parti…

In theory, I agree. In practice, college is a very useful signal. And it's not just the coursework from the college major. College demonstrates a variety of soft skills: time management, the ability to plan and meet deadlines, the ability to work on what's necessary when it's necessary, a willingness to suck it up and do some unglamorous but necessary drudge work, etc. I've worked with a variety of people that haven'…

4 years and $50-100k of debt is in no way an efficient way to surface those signals.

I agree that some things like research can't be done online. But I don't think those will remain at the university either. Graduate/research degrees must represent such a small % of a university's revenue that when the majority goes away they simply won't be able to survive.

Just ask the RIAA if they can survive by selling mp3s when they're used to selling overpriced CDs.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's all your resume says, then you're probably right. But there should be something on there that indicates that you can do the job otherwise you wasted your time applying. The point is that education says nothing about being able to do the job in many cases. If you are applying for an engineering position and you have MIT on your resume, that is certainly going to imply that you very likely have what it takes.…

The point is that education says nothing about being able to do the job in many cases. I work with students for development projects. We don't get to pick them, they pick the projects we propose. Here's a question that tells us in seconds whether we're going to have a tough project with a lot of pussyfooting or one that'll go mad with ideas: Do you have tech-related hobbies? Most barely have a few hobbies but some ar…

Agreed!

You want to find the people who care enough about technology (of whatever type) to invest their own time and resources in it. I've met too many so-called professionals who see development as their job, and see no reason whatsoever to do it for recreation.

The only "no" answer that I ever respected in this regard was "Hobbies? I am working two jobs to get through school. I have no time to do anything but work and study."

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#164

I am in my first year as a mathematics professor at the University of South Carolina. Having moved here from Stanford, I've noticed several things. (1) Many students are woefully underprepared. In my calculus classes I have found that a great many of the students have not mastered high school algebra. And these are the students who pass our placement exam, and aren't obliged to take one of our many algebra and precal…

To be fair, many math professors have the didactic abilities of a monkey.

I remember a professor and made no sense whatsoever. You felt that he was bored teaching Analysis and decided that he'd do everything but.

At one point he was talking about his theoretical work on the Riemann-Zeta function, on another point he talked about his childhood memories. He did this every lecture, hopping back and forth to what he was actually supposed to be "teaching". The equations were splattered across three blackboards in an absolutely illegible handwriting. No one could read that handwriting. On top of that, he switched from English to French to German every other minute. He was not able to maintain a consistent train of thought for longer than 30 seconds. Then, regularly, one minute before the lecture ends, he realizes that there is an error on the blackboard and starts to erase half of all the variables (which we couldn't read to begin with) and starts to doctor around.

In short, we had no clue what that guy was talking about. Not a single fucking clue. And at first, you just think that you are that dumb. That you are going to fail miserably. After all, this was the beginners course! There was one for advanced students! Because I had worked as a web dev after high school for a year and after that, I had to do one year of mandatory army service, I naturally enrolled in the beginners course.

After a month I changed to the advanced course. Of course now I had also no idea what was going on. Good times. Just reciting this story makes me angry.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to overstate the value of a university education... Why are you so vehement? Never went to college?

The cost of a college education is an overstatement of its value. How many recent grads outside of engineering do you know? Now how many of them are gainfully employed? Now how much did they pay for school and how much pay and experience did they miss out on by not working for the time they were in school? I just went through the post graduate job cycle along with a huge batch of my peers and any of us will be the fi…

That's not exactly true. On average with the current unemployment I think you are correct, but the value of an ivy league degree is still many multiples its cost because it gets into the good ol' boys club.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#166
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, I agree. In practice, college is a very useful signal. And it's not just the coursework from the college major. College demonstrates a variety of soft skills: time management, the ability to plan and meet deadlines, the ability to work on what's necessary when it's necessary, a willingness to suck it up and do some unglamorous but necessary drudge work, etc. I've worked with a variety of people that haven'…

4 years and $50-100k of debt is in no way an efficient way to surface those signals. I agree that some things like research can't be done online. But I don't think those will remain at the university either. Graduate/research degrees must represent such a small % of a university's revenue that when the majority goes away they simply won't be able to survive. Just ask the RIAA if they can survive by selling mp3s when…

Graduate / research degrees are a university

universities exist solely for the purpose of enabling professors to do further scientific research

to do this they need:

* a supply of intelligent grunts (phd candidates)

* an administration capable of turning grant money into a well stocked lab

and

* a supply of very rich young people who will be taught the basics of science such that when the young rich people run the country they might get something right

unfortunately we have forgotten that one genius well supported can provide value and economic growth for a whole planet (who invented steam engines, fire, wheels, transistors) - and  million English graduates wont make up for it.

I would be perfectly supportive of a university system that publically funded scientific (empirical,  provable) courses, had industry funding for vocational work (engineering) and left arts to do what they have always done. 

But saying let's get rid of the lot? Nonsense.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#167
The point I thought was interesting was how Mark Cuban talked about the Innovator's Dilemma for many universities that don't believe in or support online learning.

I'd venture to say the education model experienced this same sort of ID (Innovator's Dilemma) when writing/print became available to the masses.

What was traditionally taught via in-person sessions (e.g. Socrates => Plato => Aristotle) could now be written down and distributed. Sure, if you optimize for depth of learning, you won't get anywhere near the quality of having Aristotle teach you in person. Then again, unless your last name is "The Great" (Alexander), you're probably not going to get Aristotle as your teacher.

What we're seeing now is remarkably similar. You have elite legacy institutions available to a few, while technology has progressed enough to make it available to the masses. I understand the point about how great a "signal" it sends to potential employers and why that's necessary, but now that more and more of your work can be online, it's easier than ever before to send the right signals.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#168

I am in my first year as a mathematics professor at the University of South Carolina. Having moved here from Stanford, I've noticed several things. (1) Many students are woefully underprepared. In my calculus classes I have found that a great many of the students have not mastered high school algebra. And these are the students who pass our placement exam, and aren't obliged to take one of our many algebra and precal…

To be fair, many math professors have the didactic abilities of a monkey. I remember a professor and made no sense whatsoever. You felt that he was bored teaching Analysis and decided that he'd do everything but. At one point he was talking about his theoretical work on the Riemann-Zeta function, on another point he talked about his childhood memories. He did this every lecture, hopping back and forth to what he was…

I've had an absent-minded professor or two, but that's far worse than anything I experienced in 4 years of college.

High school on the other hand is another story. They hired a chemistry "teacher" off the street who turned out to be drunk every day in class (mind you, this is first period, 7:15am!), it took several weeks to figure it out because her personal hygiene was so bad you couldn't get close enough to smell the liquor.

On the other hand that was public school, so I didn't pay anything. Still a better deal than most people pay for college these days.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#169
post #103
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They simply don't have the time to do research on each one. As with anything, you have to find some way to stand out, but in a way that doesn't require them to visit your basement. In that case they shouldn't look too surprised if they end up hiring wrong people. Or they end up hiring a person with a lot of paper degrees but can't move a coin on the table. Because you ultimately get what your truly ask for. You as…

Yeah, I'm not arguing that a degree is a good indicator of performance. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the person in charge of hiring. If you advertise a well-paid tech position, you will probably get thousands of applications. You can't read them all in elaborate detail. You can't visit everyone's Github. You just don't have time. So how do you cull? Just randomly select 10% and go with that? What if you h…

This is where having a solid referral network and a good technical pre-screening process help.

The screen would be a quiz, puzzle, or other technical challenge which can root out the obviously unqualified (and possibly net you some viral buzz), while being easy for an HR drone to administer. They don't need to verify the code, just that it produces the correct result. Mind that "correct result" should be sufficiently qualified (e.g.: parsing /etc/passwd for valid user accounts will vary somewhat by 'Nix system and Linux distro).

College degree does make for a useful filter. It's not the only one. For a company which is deluged in qualified candidates, the problem isn't making the exact correct hire, but in eliminating obvious misfits quickly. Now, I'd also hope that they'd make exceptions for personal referrals who lack a college degree.

Also: college is itself a place to seed referral networks. Again, not the only one, but there.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#170
This is a fantastic article but I really wish people would stop saying "I could care less"

It's "I couldn't care less", as in, it wouldn't be possible for me to care any less if I tried, because I care so little.

If you say "I could care less" you're logically implying that you do care

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