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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#831

It's interesting how the bill can have such a heavily bipartisan approval yet there are so many opposing the decision in HN. That goes also with the general US anti-China consensus that has virtually no political lashback from domestic voters. So I would naturally assume from that then the plurality of the american voterbase would support this. So is this opposition really coming from the voterbase or elsewhere?

Do you think that everyone commenting here is from the US?

Also naturally negative comments are more likely to be posted

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#832

Did American TikTok users want this? No? Then it needs to die. It's fascinating watching the government interventions sans voter support that HN celebrates vs eviscerates.

What a weak argument. Presumably burglars would rather burglary was legal too.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But ByteDance, TikTok's owner, operates it's own analogous app in China, Douyin

Why isn't TikTok available in China? Do you think it makes business sense to operate two different apps if they're "analogous"?

Douyin is TikTok in China. Or perhaps it's more appropriate to say that TikTok is the export version of Douyin.

Reasons for having two apps are rife with speculation. One is that censorship in Douyin is more prevalent than on the export version (that one is pretty obvious). There's also speculation that the export version of Douyin has an algorithm tuned to be more addictive.

But let's be clear, by ByteDance's own statements the two apps have shared management and technology.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete fairly in their digital ecosystem, why the hell should we continue to grant Chinese firms unrestricted access to our market? Because we are (used to be?) a country that believes in democracy and the will of our citizens. If people want to download a Chinese app and watch straight up Chinese news and propaganda (not even close to what TikTok actually is), they sh…

>we are (used to be?) a country that believes in democracy and the will of our citizens We either need to mass-educate everyone on the whole Edward Bernays subconscious manipulation thing (which we won't do because it would catastrophically break PR, advertising, political campaigns and more) or do it ourselves, do it thoroughly, and prevent others from accessing our citizens eyes/ears, which is what we're trying to…

>We're far, far beyond "we'll just let our well-educated citizens decide for themselves", and it's weird to see someone act like that's how anything works. That idea's been broken for closing in on a century.

So instead we should let our better-educated governing betters and cultural/business elites decide opinion not just for themselves but for the rest of us? Because of course none of them are subject to any sort of self interest, terrible bias, corruption, mendacity or simply being ignorant due to their own cognitive failures?

The very core notion of democracy and free speech is that no one group can be fully trusted to hold the reins of control or opinion by their own decision and imposition on the rest.

Thus you introduce the largest plurality possible of rights for expression and governance to mitigate against the disasters that much more often occur with oligarchy. Far from perfect but your idea of giving any key group control of discourse for the sake of "fighting misinformation" (as if they themselves don't create shit barges of it of their own) is laughable.

Recall please (for example) that the NY Times, which spent the Trump years and beyond practically raving about the dangers of misinformation and foreign influence of opinions also happily played along with the vastly costly lies of the Iraq WMD scandal that was used to justify an invasion costing trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives. And it did all this lying at the behest of completely domestic U.S. policy makers and leaders.

That's the sort of cozy opinion/policy leadership practices to which we should be pushing further? Fuck no.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you're missing that it's most likely unconstitutional, because it violates the First amendment. Also related, but somewhat separate, is just that people should have freedom to information.

That's not clear. Does the First Amendment protect non-U.S. persons' right to speak and publish?

The First Amendment does not directly protect the speech of non-US persons outside of US territory. However, US courts have held that the First Amendment can limit the US government's ability to restrict the speech of non-US persons abroad if that speech is directed at or received by people in the US.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#836

This type of protectionism could really backfire on the United States. We are a heavy net importer, and I don’t think our Congressmen understand what kind of can of worms this opens. The cynic in me wonders if Microsoft is behind all of this, as they stand to gain the most from a forced sale.

Not just a net importer, but also the main exporter of algorithmic feeds. If the US bans TikTok for fear of China manipulating public opinion via their algorithmic feed, lots of other countries might think twice whether they want to allow the same influence from the US via Twitter, Facebook, Threads, Youtube, Instagram, etc.

I wouldn't say no to more localised social media platforms that revolve around a country or region- who really needs to hear about what americans in beverly hills are doing all the time. Like line in japan or something

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#839
post #35

One positive in all this is when Twitter got blocked in China, over night basically everyone under the age of 24 learned how to use VPNs, and learned how to subvert various official software update mechanisms. I'm thinking that this, or something like it, could be what is finally going to break the stranglehold that Apple and Google have on the US app store market, even if it's just an unintentional side effect.

If Hauwei weren't banned they could promote some sort of a "TikTok" phone and maybe a lot of people would buy it.

Maybe they should still do it given China 's ability to crank out nth variation of existing devices overnight and make it some sort of underground "drop" kinda like how Gen-Z is going insane over sneaker drops.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#840
post #677
post #413

In a previous discussion thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39692670 ), there was a significant amount of discussion regarding the belief that the push for this legislation may be influenced by the pro-Israel lobby, specifically in reaction to the uncensored flow of information via TikTok following the events of October 7th in Gaza. These discussions were quickly downvoted and flagged. However, I believe i…

If this is true, AIPAC is a greater foreign threat than TikTok. Maybe we should ban AIPAC instead.

How do you ban AIPAC when they are basically malware that is running at all layers of the stack from OS to Firmware to CPU Microcode? Good luck with that!
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