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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#551

Post by strangattractor »

jrockway wrote: post #486
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…

The US Constitution guaranties US citizens rights not the general population of the Earth. Our government has no way to enforce or protect rights from entities outside of the US (other than force). If as you say it is just a "giant printing press" then ownership is irrelevant - change it and print away. If on the other hand the Chinese government has a vested interest in influencing what 136 million Americas consume as information - it will probably stay under a Chinese Government sphere of influence by order of the Party.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#552

Post by Sparkle-san »

RivieraKid wrote: post #545
segasaturn wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it worse for me to have Tiktok installed on my phone than Google Chrome or Facebook?

Because TikTok can be used as a weapon by China. Democracies have a weakness - enemies can influence the population and therefore the government. Russia does this quite effectively in my opinion (one example is Slovakia).

Social media can and is already being used as a weapon by internal actors against democracy.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#553

Post by kirse »

jrockway wrote: post #486
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…

TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of printing press.

No, TikTok is essentially digital opium. And China itself has confirmed that reality by 1) restricting their citizens' daily access and 2) significantly filtering the content they can see on it:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/03/08/1069527/china-ti...

It would only be fair of the US to follow China's example of protecting its citizens from numbing out on TikTok digital garbage. We should most certainly should follow suit with an equivalently restrictive measure.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#554

Post by segasaturn »

franciscop wrote: post #491
segasaturn wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is run out of the United States and adheres to the same laws as Twitter and Facebook. Its CEO, Shou Chew, was just at a hearing in front of Congress last month.

As an example, do you think a US citizen personal data is as secure from requests from the CCP in e.g. Facebook as it is in Tiktok? That TikTok executives are as liable to US laws and prosecution as Facebook execs?

>That TikTok executives are as liable to US laws and prosecution as Facebook execs?

They absolutely are - again, TikTok is an American company with American employees who can be held liable if TikTok breaks the law - e.g. Shou Chew. The problem for the government is that TikTok hasn't broken any laws.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#555

Post by brandensilva »

fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #532
tempsy wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60 minutes episode last year (?) insinuated that the CCP's main goal is social disorder eg they heavily restrict the Chinese version for kids to be education oriented where the American version is basically all ages softcore porn and ragebait.

As someone who has actually used douyin (about one or two years ago) I can say for certain that that isn't true in the general case. Perhaps the rules are a bit stricter but I saw absolutely zero educational content at all in any form. I did see some military videos which seemed like propaganda as they showed up randomly but its hard to say if those only showed up because I watched the first one to its end for exampl…

Id like to see the Uighar camps but sure as heck known that isn't happening. /s

It's hard for me to imagine a lot isn't filtered out. There is a reason they have a separate app. It's likely one is heavily filtered and the other is their propaganda tool but I'd like to see more evidence to indicate that but it's a hard thing to track given they could be just feeding kids the worst things for them or favorable views to their party and we wouldn't even know.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#556

Post by AlbertCory »

codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

The argument is that they are an enemy. No other argument is necessary. Not free speech, not reciprocity, not that they're an oppressive government.

If in 1939 Hitler had tried to buy the CBS radio network, FDR would have stopped him, or the Congress. If it had required a Constitutional amendment, that would have passed easily.

Yet we were not at war with Germany (yet).

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#557

Post by daveguy »

bjourne wrote: post #504
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

The word "reciprocity" cannot hide the fact that two wrongs doesn't make a right. We think it is wrong of China to censor Facebook and Twitter because that is what authoritarian regimes that don't give a shit about free speech do. For exactly the same reason it is wrong of the US to ban TikTok. And this bill has nothing to do with balancing international trade. It's stated purpose is to restrict China's ability to in…

China is not a US citizen.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#560

Post by ultrasaurus »

Raw vote information here: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202486 & Bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521

This bill prohibits distributing, maintaining, or providing internet hosting services for a foreign adversary controlled application (e.g., TikTok). However, the prohibition does not apply to a covered application that executes a qualified divestiture as determined by the President.

Under the bill, a foreign adversary controlled application is directly or indirectly operated by (1) ByteDance, Ltd. or TikTok (including their subsidiaries or successors); or (2) a social media company that is controlled by a foreign adversary and has been determined by the President to present a significant threat to national security. The prohibition does not apply to an application that is primarily used to post product reviews, business reviews, or travel information and reviews.

The bill authorizes the Department of Justice to investigate violations of the bill and enforce the bill's provisions. Entities that violate the bill are subject to civil penalties based on the number of users.

The bill requires a covered application to provide a user with all available account data (including posts, photos, and videos) at the user's request before the prohibition takes effect.

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