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F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

defense.gov

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Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#91

Post by maxglute »

tragiclos wrote: post #14
bee_rider wrote: post #8

It is wild that they’ve turned this project around from the avatar of wasteful defense spending, to the jet that everybody wants.

Seems like victory through attrition. It might be the only modern fighter produced for export in the Western world.

> victory through attrition

Basically, but also looking like increasingly transient victory through attrition that's going to backfire on US alliance in long term.

TLDR - Convince western bloc to burden share development cost of joint program, burn partners by retaining near exclusive control over deployment and development. See drama that US has control over mission data files, that can only be generated at Eglin AFB, aka non US operators have essentially no sovereign control over their F35s. In the meantime, partners stuck on F35 platform because multi generational gamble commitment killed their own aero industry and there's no alternative short/medium term.

There's a reason almost every non-US F35 operator that can, is developing their own fighter, or partnering up in programs to to develop non US associated fighters (history US joint programs tech sharing drama entirely different shitshow) - actual long term operators of F35 have come to realize getting captured by F35 US/Lockmart SAAS is highly problematic. Borderline treasonous if we're being honest.

US can probably fix this by openning up program, or wait for other programs to fail technically/economically. Seeing how US can barely wrest F35 from Lockheed contracts, and how behind other western programs are, the latter probably more likely.

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#92

Post by luxuryballs »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #41
luxuryballs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do hope we don’t end up wishing we had pulled out of NATO.

how would that happen?

getting pulled into a war that we can’t afford to fight and losing many American lives comes to mind

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#93

Post by sickofparadox »

actionfromafar wrote: post #85
dralley wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> slightly less capable What competitor is even close to "slightly less capable"? The main driver of the cost is maintaining stealth coatings. On that front it has no real competitors.

I guess it depends on how much one values stealth. I'm just an armchair-most-things, but it seems to me that there are many situations stealth doesn't matter as much as effective robot range, turn-around time and ease of logistics.

If rumors are to be believed, without reflectors on, the F-35 should have a radar cross section smaller than a quarter (which is a bit larger than a 1 Euro coin). On top of that, its radar is purported to outrange Russian and Chinese radars by almost 2:1. Just looking at it for air supremacy missions, the thing is basically invisible (to radar), and can launch a missile at an enemy jet before they could even detect it, if it wasn't basically invisible.

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#94

Post by MrMember »

bombcar wrote: post #63
alistairSH wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military aircraft have production runs they can span many years (F-16 production turns 50 this year).

The B-52 has been operating long enough to have grandkids flying it: https://www.minot.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/264580...

The B-52 will likely hit a century of operational use, it's kind of insane.

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#95

Post by actionfromafar »

sickofparadox wrote: post #93
actionfromafar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on how much one values stealth. I'm just an armchair-most-things, but it seems to me that there are many situations stealth doesn't matter as much as effective robot range, turn-around time and ease of logistics.

If rumors are to be believed, without reflectors on, the F-35 should have a radar cross section smaller than a quarter (which is a bit larger than a 1 Euro coin). On top of that, its radar is purported to outrange Russian and Chinese radars by almost 2:1. Just looking at it for air supremacy missions, the thing is basically invisible (to radar), and can launch a missile at an enemy jet before they could even detect i…

I mean, even if it had a larger cross section it could probably pick off Russian fighters before those could do anything in return. But with the stealth it has, it could creep up on them and they wouldn't even know what happened until it was too late.

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#96

Post by sillywalk »

rgmerk wrote: post #7

The F-35 first flew in late 2006, and they've debugged it enough to get it into full production...17 years later. In the private sector, you'd no longer be able to buy the components it's built out of. Ridiculous.

They've already produced over 1000 of the ~ 2400 they are expected to produce.

As for upgrades.. they're behind schedule.[0] There's Tech Refresh 3, which looks to be improved computers/displays/software, which is needed for Block 4, "which will include new sensors, the ability to carry more long-range precision weapons, more powerful data fusion, increased interoperability with other platforms and advanced electronic warfare capabilities."[1]

[0] https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/03/30/f-35-upgrades-sli...

[1] https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/12/15/f-35-head-warns-f...

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#98

Post by acchow »

zer00eyz wrote: post #21
bee_rider wrote: post #8

It is wild that they’ve turned this project around from the avatar of wasteful defense spending, to the jet that everybody wants.

>> jet that everybody wants. That was the f22. And we blocked international sales in favor of the f35. The death of the f22 should not be mourned, we will get 6th gen research to replace it. As for the everybody wants it bit, this is very true. Much to the ~~shargrin~~ chagrin of EU military industry. With one of our presidential candidates calling for us pulling out of nato, with us not backing Ukraine, I would expe…

> that spending is a large part of our exports and economy.

I'm seeing annual US exports at $2 trillion, with military exports at $56bn, or 2.8%. That is definitely material, but hard to call that "large part of"

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#99

Post by red-iron-pine »

rgmerk wrote: post #7

The F-35 first flew in late 2006, and they've debugged it enough to get it into full production...17 years later. In the private sector, you'd no longer be able to buy the components it's built out of. Ridiculous.

a nasty, brutal peer-vs-peer war is going on right now between what is one of the largest militaries in the world (Russia) against a smaller, but heavily supplied by NATO (Ukraine).

most of the fighting, and a whole lot of dying, has been with late-cold-war era tech. The upgraded T-72 tank, and it's successors, the T-80, and T-90, for example, are all far older than 2006.

Re: F-35 Program Achieves Full Rate Production

#100

Post by credit_guy »

leashless wrote: post #88
credit_guy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context, by UK do you mean Ukraine? Because I can't see how the United Kingdom would make sense. Anyway, assuming it was Ukraine, then, yes, the western equipment made a lot of difference. In the first months of the war it was the Javelins, and the NLAWs. Then it was the HIMARS. Then the anti-air defenses, like the Patriot. All these things absolutely made a difference. The problem is that there was not more…

Let us not forget: before this war, Russians went on holiday in Odesa. Ukrainians went on holiday in St. Petersburg. It's not a genocidal war of annihilation. It's not WW2 redux. It's not Holodomor 2.0. I do not think everybody realises how low the stakes of this conflict really are.

That’s a very cavalier way of looking at things. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of people have died already, and millions of people live now as refugees. What does it take to make something high stakes in your view?
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