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The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

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Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#51

Post by grannyg00se »

jellicle wrote: post #43

Mark Cuban writes: "As an employer I want the best prepared and qualified employees. I could care less if the source of their education was accredited by a bunch of old men and women who think they know what is best for the world. I want people who can do the job. I want the best and brightest. Not a piece of paper." So, I suppose I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet a great deal of money that Mark Cuban d…

If that's all your resume says, then you're probably right. But there should be something on there that indicates that you can do the job otherwise you wasted your time applying. The point is that education says nothing about being able to do the job in many cases.

If you are applying for an engineering position and you have MIT on your resume, that is certainly going to imply that you very likely have what it takes. But it still doesn't prove anything. On the other hand, if you have no formal education on your resume but you've built a fusion reactor in your basement, I'm pretty sure your resume wouldn't get thrown away.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#52

Post by flurie »

jellicle wrote: post #43

Mark Cuban writes: "As an employer I want the best prepared and qualified employees. I could care less if the source of their education was accredited by a bunch of old men and women who think they know what is best for the world. I want people who can do the job. I want the best and brightest. Not a piece of paper." So, I suppose I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet a great deal of money that Mark Cuban d…

The great irony of this is that the vast majority of these free offerings from which one could conceivably cobble a degree are in STEM, and yet the numbers of students graduating with STEM degrees has been flat for decades.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#53

Post by DTrejo »

glesica wrote: post #40

This is just absurd. Non-accredited, branded schools will provide better education for less money? Really? I assume he's referring to the growing for-profit college industry. Yet for-profit colleges are actually the biggest culprits driving up the student debt. Students at for-profit colleges run up more debt, are more likely to drop out, and are more likely to end up under-employed than those at traditional universi…

He might mean things like http://www.khanacademy.org/ and http://devbootcamp.com/experience.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#54

Post by wyclif »

rbn wrote: post #39
wyclif wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm partial to this argument, but it only works if you allow for technical education that does provide people with the STEM (or other) skills needed for the workforce. I think higher education in the US is actually very broken. The best example I can think of that embodies that division of purpose is the UK, where you have Oxbridge and other elite institutions which function in the sense you are referring to, but you…

U.S has those. They are called Community College.

Yes, but Community Colleges are more generalised than Polytechs, which are purposed to impart specifically technical skills to a future workforce.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#55

Post by jrs235 »

glesica wrote: post #40

This is just absurd. Non-accredited, branded schools will provide better education for less money? Really? I assume he's referring to the growing for-profit college industry. Yet for-profit colleges are actually the biggest culprits driving up the student debt. Students at for-profit colleges run up more debt, are more likely to drop out, and are more likely to end up under-employed than those at traditional universi…

I think he is referring to startups like codeacademy, not for profit schools. He's saying and betting that people like kahn will start more kahnacademy online schools and education. People who aren't driven by greed will cause the for profit schools, rising tuitions, and maximum student loan amounts to be unneccesary.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#56

Post by ender7 »

I agree that the price of a college education is too high. I don't see how this justifies the conclusion that "therefore, people should stop going to college and take online courses."

Most medical care is overpriced, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get a heart transplant.

I am deeply skeptical that online courses or for-profit education will result in anything but a horrible mess.

(this is not to say that it's impossible to succeed and do quite well without a college degree, but it's much harder - it's harder to get hired and it's harder to acquire the knowledge and experience necessary to be qualified for a position)

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#57

Post by Retric »

mbell wrote: post #45
Retric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just refuted that argument by denoting that 'price' as the sticker price. New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. The state could just directly give public schools the same money for in state students and avoid the 'scholorship' angle. But, this approach offers better publicity and if you have below a 2.5 GPA in a public high-school you migh…

> New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. Where do you think that money is coming from?

Reducing the money they give to state schools. The stated funding source is lottery sales, but money is fungible. It's actually becoming fairly common Tennessee, New Mexico, Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, New York, South Carolina, Missouri and West Virginia are among those sponsoring lottery-funded scholarship programs. http://www.scholarships.com/blog/financial-aid/lottery-schol...

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#58

Post by uptown »

mbell wrote: post #45
Retric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just refuted that argument by denoting that 'price' as the sticker price. New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. The state could just directly give public schools the same money for in state students and avoid the 'scholorship' angle. But, this approach offers better publicity and if you have below a 2.5 GPA in a public high-school you migh…

> New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. Where do you think that money is coming from?

In theory, since it's a state school, wouldn't that just imply less money coming into the state ... in other words, an anticipated revenue shortfall due to how their enrollment is setup - but not necessarily something where anybody is cutting a check to cover the cost of the scholarship.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#59

Post by javert »

zerohp wrote: post #48
learc83 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have found that a great many of the students have not mastered high school algebra. That's been my experience tutoring all of my younger siblings. I think that we'd be better served if all 4 years of high school were spent mastering basic algebra (with exceptions of course). A mastery of basic algebra will better prepare you for college than a cursory understanding of trig and calculus.

I'm an older student attending my local community college, and I agree with you completely. I watch my classmates in Calculus and Physics courses struggle with algebra much more than the new material we are learning. High schools should focus on algebra and geometry for the majority of students.

From my perspective, you guys have it backwards. I was screwed in some of my college courses because I did not have enough calculus background, I only had algebra.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#60

Post by ender7 »

grannyg00se wrote: post #51
jellicle wrote: post #43

Mark Cuban writes: "As an employer I want the best prepared and qualified employees. I could care less if the source of their education was accredited by a bunch of old men and women who think they know what is best for the world. I want people who can do the job. I want the best and brightest. Not a piece of paper." So, I suppose I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet a great deal of money that Mark Cuban d…

If that's all your resume says, then you're probably right. But there should be something on there that indicates that you can do the job otherwise you wasted your time applying. The point is that education says nothing about being able to do the job in many cases. If you are applying for an engineering position and you have MIT on your resume, that is certainly going to imply that you very likely have what it takes.…

Unfortunately, "went to MIT" is both easily recognizable and easily verified.

"Built a fusion reactor in my basement" is neither of those things.

Similarly, "check out my GitHub" has many of the same problems. I'm sorry, but most employers don't have time to look you up on GitHub to crawl through all your commits. That will happen if you get past the first cut, but it won't do anything beforehand.

Sure, you can put "Main developer for " on your resume. Hopefully the person who is in charge of culling applications has heard of . If they haven't, they will hopefully take the time to go look it up. Hopefully.

I'm not saying that this is the way it should be, but you have to understand that the average person in charge of hiring is constantly inundated with applications. They simply don't have the time to do research on each one. As with anything, you have to find some way to stand out, but in a way that doesn't require them to visit your basement.

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