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The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

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Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#31

This was the first comment on Cuban's blog. Can anyone comment on it? I listened to the NPR Podcast, it is specific to private colleges; I am not sure how public colleges fit in. "The most recent Planet Money on NPR was about the cost of college. [1] They point out that the price that has been rising is the “sticker price.” However, the average price a student pays for college hasn’t risen (except to adjust for infla…

The comment is incorrect. Student loan growth far outpaces the number of new students:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/chart-of...

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#32
post #10

While this article talks about how bad things are I think an interesting solution was written up here [pdf] http://www.fixuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FixUC-Propos... The idea being you go to school for free and the University only makes money from a percentage of your future pay, thereby ensuring that it's students are actually prepared for the work force. More here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcro…

Then you would just have universities competing to crank out CEOs/MBAs in the hopes that they 'hit it big' a lot.

Then we weight their percentage based on the number that they cranked out. That way, the more horses they have in the race, the less the payout is on the winning one.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#33
For those who are interested in student debt, there is a really good website called Project on student debt:

http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php

The problem really lies in the fact that the US cannot find the right answer for the basic question: Is Higher Education a public or private good? There is no wrong answer, just that answer is really required to form good student expectations regarding the economic system, and what they should invest in a degree. Right now the US government subsidizes higher ed in various forms and manners, in order to bring the cost burden down. Pre-2008 crisis, the US govt used to mostly guarantee debt taken out by college students in order to bring down the rates. Banks would then securitize these loans, cut them up in tranches and sell them on to investors, pretty much like MBS's (mortgage backed securities). However, in the financial fallout a lot of students could not get loans so the US government decided to give out more grants etc.

However, the example of UK is quite interesting as well. The average student debt in the UK is lower due to a large part of costs being carried by the govt. Though, this does not effectually increase unemployment rate either. Lower debt != great unemployment and greater happiness. Also, historically civilizations with higher quantity of credit flowing around in the economy seem to do better as well.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#34
post #30

This was the first comment on Cuban's blog. Can anyone comment on it? I listened to the NPR Podcast, it is specific to private colleges; I am not sure how public colleges fit in. "The most recent Planet Money on NPR was about the cost of college. [1] They point out that the price that has been rising is the “sticker price.” However, the average price a student pays for college hasn’t risen (except to adjust for infla…

>The reason student loan debt has ballooned isn’t because students are paying more. That's not true, I've seen numerous articles on the cost of public colleges increasing much faster than inflation. Anecdote: I dropped out of Georgia State in 2007, I'm going back now to finish my last few semesters of a math degree. The cost has more than doubled in the last 5 years.

He just refuted that argument by denoting that 'price' as the sticker price. New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. The state could just directly give public schools the same money for in state students and avoid the 'scholorship' angle. But, this approach offers better publicity and if you have below a 2.5 GPA in a public high-school you might not be ready for collage.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#35
post #10

While this article talks about how bad things are I think an interesting solution was written up here [pdf] http://www.fixuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FixUC-Propos... The idea being you go to school for free and the University only makes money from a percentage of your future pay, thereby ensuring that it's students are actually prepared for the work force. More here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcro…

Then you would just have universities competing to crank out CEOs/MBAs in the hopes that they 'hit it big' a lot.

Hold that thought: http://www.ycombinator.com/

I'm a traditional university type. If pg can drag the Zuckerberg set out my physics department, that's fine by me.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#36

The other end of the problem is that kid's aren't even trying to flip their degree. Most kids consider college and experience not an investment. You're kid is the worst investor on the planet. Because instead of majoring in Bioengineering they are majoring in psychology. And If they are majoring in psychology they aren't out to get the best damn research positions over the summer and publish papers, they are out work…

This is completely what's wrong with the system. Eventually everybody needs to work for money. That's not to say you can't go to University to better yourself and learn something that inspires you. Eventually, though, you have to eat and pay for creature comforts. If college has a huge sticker price, what's paying the bill? If not college, something else has to. Everybody who goes to school needs to make sure that they can cover the costs, either through the skills they learn in college or via some other means.

Going to college to study liberal arts is still a very respectful thing to do, if that's what you actually intend to do...as opposed to going to college, cutting classes, getting wasted 5 days a week and graduating with a C average in psychology.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#37
post #5

While this article talks about how bad things are I think an interesting solution was written up here [pdf] http://www.fixuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FixUC-Propos... The idea being you go to school for free and the University only makes money from a percentage of your future pay, thereby ensuring that it's students are actually prepared for the work force. More here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcro…

The problem I have with this is that university should NOT prepare you for the work force . Universities are awesome! We ruined them when we started thinking of higher education as preparation (or even requirement) for the workforce. University should prepare you to be a thinker, a scientist and just generally an educated person. As soon as it becomes vocational the whole point is lost. We don't need to "fix higher e…

Yes I agree. There are 2 big problems with education.

1) The society requires you to have a degree. A self taught programmer will likley get paid less than a college educated programmer. Even though the self taught one is more skilled.

2) College students blindly trust that the college education will get them jobs. What many don't know is that the the stuff they are getting taught is obsolete already. Many Occupy Wall Street protestors said that "We went to college, where are our jobs?". Who said going to college will get you a job?

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#38
post #34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The reason student loan debt has ballooned isn’t because students are paying more. That's not true, I've seen numerous articles on the cost of public colleges increasing much faster than inflation. Anecdote: I dropped out of Georgia State in 2007, I'm going back now to finish my last few semesters of a math degree. The cost has more than doubled in the last 5 years.

He just refuted that argument by denoting that 'price' as the sticker price. New Mexico for example gives all students attending a state school with a high school GPA over 2.5 a scholorship. The state could just directly give public schools the same money for in state students and avoid the 'scholorship' angle. But, this approach offers better publicity and if you have below a 2.5 GPA in a public high-school you migh…

Which argument are you talking about? If the cost doubled for him to pay out of pocket, it doubled for him. Talking about sticker price vs. adjusted metrics is really arguing semantics in this case if somebody is stuck paying what's charged up front.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#39
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with this is that university should NOT prepare you for the work force . Universities are awesome! We ruined them when we started thinking of higher education as preparation (or even requirement) for the workforce. University should prepare you to be a thinker, a scientist and just generally an educated person. As soon as it becomes vocational the whole point is lost. We don't need to "fix higher e…

I'm partial to this argument, but it only works if you allow for technical education that does provide people with the STEM (or other) skills needed for the workforce. I think higher education in the US is actually very broken. The best example I can think of that embodies that division of purpose is the UK, where you have Oxbridge and other elite institutions which function in the sense you are referring to, but you…

U.S has those. They are called Community College.

Re: The Coming Meltdown In College Education & Why The Economy Won’t Get Better Soon

#40
This is just absurd. Non-accredited, branded schools will provide better education for less money? Really? I assume he's referring to the growing for-profit college industry.

Yet for-profit colleges are actually the biggest culprits driving up the student debt. Students at for-profit colleges run up more debt, are more likely to drop out, and are more likely to end up under-employed than those at traditional universities.

This paragraph also bothers the crap out of me:

> The competition from new forms of education is starting to appear. Particularly in the tech world. Online and physical classrooms are popping up everywhere. They respond to needs in the market. THey work with local businesses to tailor the education to corporate needs. In essence assuring those who excel that they will get a job. All for far far less money than traditional schools.

Yes, students need relevant, modern, education, but education that is "tailored" to corporate needs is a little worrisome. Extremely targeted education might be sweet for the corporations hiring the graduates, but it sucks for the students themselves.

Economists draw a distinction between general human capital and specific human capital. General capital includes things like math and critical thinking, skills that can be applied in a variety of situations. Specific capital includes things like how to use a particular piece of software or knowing which forms need to be filled out for a requisition.

General capital benefits employees because the employee is free to take his capital and go elsewhere; the skills are transferable. This is what we see in silicon valley where companies acquire startups just for their employees.

Specific capital, on the other hand, benefits the employer since the capital is only valuable to a specific industry or company so the employee is limited in where he can take his skills.

Everyone needs a mix of general and specific capital. But the balance has implications for the economy as a whole.

One of the things that traditional universities have been pretty good at is general capital. This provides flexibility and resiliency to the economy. People can move between jobs and even careers, from dying industries to growing ones. They can fill jobs that hadn't even been invented when they were in school. And they can actually acquire specific capital more readily (the "ability" to learn).

Shifting focus to specific capital by allowing companies to control our educational system threatens to turn the entire country into one big company town, and that's a little frightening.

EDIT: Typo

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