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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#251

Post by narag »

autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

...but I've seen very nice and expensive apartments and houses very close to (or directly on) busy streets.

Some of the most expensive houses in my neighbourhood are the closest to the highway. I just tried to check, but none of them are for sale right now. Traffic only decreases four hours at night but it never really stops. Only the noise is a big no-no.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#252

Post by HPsquared »

autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

I've seen adverts for Chinese luxury apartments touting the built-in HEPA filtration systems. Seems to be a must-have if the air outside is polluted. Nobody seems to even think about this in building codes in the West. Especially, as you say, for apartments near major roads.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#253

Post by autoexec »

wodenokoto wrote: post #248
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

> The people with the least amount of money end up having to move to apartments near highways In Dubai prime real estate is along the major highway Sheik Zayed Road. It’s funny how these things can be cultural.

Going by the look of the images on it's wikipedia page, most of the people next to that road aren't at/near ground level. I don't how many stories up you'd have to get before the pollution and noise aren't a problem, but I'm guessing the air only gets fresher the higher you go.

Some of the reason why poor areas in the US are around highways and busy streets have to do with the history of redlining (https://phys.org/news/2024-02-highways-historically-redlined...). Even today when a city wants to build a loud/smelly/polluting highway or a factory or a landfill or a sewer treatment plant it's the poorest areas that are the least able to fight back, and putting them in the areas where poor people are will mean the least amount of inconvenience for the wealthy who often live far away from those neighborhoods. After a source of pollution is in place, very few people want to move in right next to it, so any houses there tend to be inexpensive and may be the only housing poor people can afford which further concentrates them into those areas.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#254

Post by lm28469 »

sokoloff wrote: post #123
Reason077 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only does regenerative braking itself reduce PM emissions, the reduced demand on friction brakes is enabling some EVs, such as the Volkswagen ID3 and ID4, to switch to drum brakes. Due to their enclosed nature, drum brakes greatly reduce PM emissions compared to disc brakes.

That seems like the ID.4 has drum brakes on the rear only and disc brakes on the front (which is not unique to it; some lower end gasoline cars still have rear drums as well).

Yeah it's juste because it's cheaper, twingos also have drum breaks for the rear, as well as smarts and probably a boatload of other vehicles

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#255

Post by lm28469 »

NoPicklez wrote: post #198

The credibility and purpose of the article was shot down when they said the problem would be getting WORSE with EV's. Firstly, the problem becomes less of an issue with EV's and they shared no evidence to support that moving to EV's would increase non-exhaust based pollution. Lastly, there have been plenty of studies over the last two decades which show charged particles from car brakes.

EVs are 50%-100% heavier and a lot of them accelerate faster than supercars from the 80s...

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#256

Post by lucioperca »

HPsquared wrote: post #252
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

I've seen adverts for Chinese luxury apartments touting the built-in HEPA filtration systems. Seems to be a must-have if the air outside is polluted. Nobody seems to even think about this in building codes in the West. Especially, as you say, for apartments near major roads.

Modern homes in Germany have ventilation with heat exchange which have some sort filter system.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontrollierte_Wohnrauml%C3%BCf...

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#257

Post by okokwhatever »

Ok, again another discussion about how cool EVs are because they're gonna save the world and blablaba. Why dont we talk about the size, weight and pollution produced by the process of building a battery and how many houses can be energized by the electric consumption of just one of this machines?

Just to balance the conversation, you know.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#258

Post by yreg »

hacker_88 wrote: post #246
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

EV use of Magnetic Braking reduce brake wear by alot . With One pedal driving in city not using brakes at all

I almost never use breaks. It is a game for me, so I'm conscious of any time I have to use them.

On the other hand, EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass).

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#259

Post by Tade0 »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #206

A startup I worked for years ago initially had a temporary office in a coworking space that catered to artists and craftspeople, in a renovated warehouse near the freeway loop downtown. They didn't have air conditioning, which isn't particularly strange in the PNW, but we did learn opening the windows for breeze was a very bad idea. The amount of tire and brake dust/soot that would pile up in a single afternoon was d…

I went to Switzerland once and as I walking over a bridge stretching above a highway, I noticed the smell of hydrocarbons and machinery in general.

It takes Alpine air as a point of reference to feel it, which says a lot about the ambient level of pollution in cities.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#260

Post by xdavidliu »

ManitobaForMe wrote: post #143
xdavidliu wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we remove tailpipe emissions, which are by far the largest im gonna need a source on your claim. heres a source that claims the opposite https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/0... > our brakes and tires isn’t benign, either. Tests by Emissions Analytics, an engineering consulting company based in England, found tires produce about 2,000 times more particle pollution by mass than tailpipes.

the article was about brake emissions. Yet you're pointing to an article about tires.

comment I was responding to:

> If we remove tailpipe emissions, which are by far the largest, then brake/tire wear emissions become visible and are next in the list to deal with.

(clearly claiming that tailpipe emissions are by far larger than both brake and tire emissions)

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