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Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

cnn.com

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Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#141

Post by 627467 »

avs733 wrote: post #130
627467 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe what most people are truly concerned is the Boeing Narrative? Increasingly more than just a narrative

Whether time proves that out - and whether 'more than a narrative' (meaning..safety culture) is actually related to this incident matter and are independent of it emerging as a narrative. A very similar thing happened post Air France 447's crash into the Atlantic ocean. The reporting on it began to include any incident involving any airbus plane for quite a while until it was determined the crew was primarily at faul…

Airbus has other types of disfuntions.

It's ridiculous to consider the problems with Boeing started now:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_g...

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#142

Post by ricardobeat »

Johnny555 wrote: post #120

I remember being on a 787 not long after they were introduced and after boarding, we had a 20 minute delay because of an equipment problem that required "rebooting the plane" (the pilot's words). They did a full power shutoff, the cabin lights went off for a few minutes (and the cabin quickly warmed up because the A/C was off and the electronic window shades turned clear), then about 20 minutes later the pilot said e…

The first versions of the Dreamliner had some kind of software bug that ended up generating a requirement of a hard reboot every X hours until it could be fixed. I don’t know if I would have the guts to board the plane after seeing that!

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#143

Post by WalterBright »

Or maybe the pilot made a mistake and is trying to save face by blaming the instruments. I suggest waiting for the investigation to figure out what went wrong.

For example, he could have slipped while climbing out of the seat and fell against the control column.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#144

Post by nsguy »

avs733 wrote: post #130
627467 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe what most people are truly concerned is the Boeing Narrative? Increasingly more than just a narrative

Whether time proves that out - and whether 'more than a narrative' (meaning..safety culture) is actually related to this incident matter and are independent of it emerging as a narrative. A very similar thing happened post Air France 447's crash into the Atlantic ocean. The reporting on it began to include any incident involving any airbus plane for quite a while until it was determined the crew was primarily at faul…

IIRC there were other Airbus incidents and concerns. It's been so long I don't recall the details but I remember being worried about flying Airbus.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#145

Post by whatshisface »

gopher_space wrote: post #135
ryanisnan wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people seem to be disregarding highly related facts and are ignoring the fundamental nature of how or why the facts are related. Correlation does not imply causation, but when the facts are of the same substance, additional concern is warranted.

It's hard to criticize a power structure your point of view depends on, so you get weird apologists for industry in general that pop up in conversations like these.

The funniest thing is that Boeing is barely industry, with all the two-way regulatory ties and of course the monopoly, it's like a nationalized company that just happens to be nominally owned by investors. The only ideology that Boeing makes look bad is the Soviet system! :-)

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#147

Post by nsguy »

BWStearns wrote: post #116
kulahan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you link a few with injuries anywhere near this size? I feel like that’d be national news, so it’s surprising to hear it’s happening often.

Not a control issue but there was a Hawaiian flight that had 36 injuries from turbulence. Edit to add: it would be unsurprising if turbulence was the cause here and the passenger quoted had their facts wrong. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/18/us/hawaiian-airlines-injuries...

An airplane doesn't suddenly drop out of the sky because its controls stops responding. So I agree that on the face of it it's either turbulence or some sort of aggressive manoeuvre, either initiated by the pilots accidentally or somehow initiated by the airplanes control systems, not simply "stopped responding to controls".

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#148

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #76

If you watch The Aviation Herald, this kind of reporting feels a little like trying to write news stories off VAERS data. Crazy shit is happening more or less all the time in planes; the idea isn't that nothing ever goes wrong, but that layered controls prevent injuries or hull losses. It's not that there necessarily isn't a thru-line to these stories. And I read "Flying Blind" like everyone else and share the popula…

[deleted]

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#149

Post by onetimeuse92304 »

delfinom wrote: post #134
onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All development was offshored to a lowest bidder. Thanks to this, all our critical flight control software is now developed by a single intern aided by Copilot (sic!) We are now looking for a way to optimize the intern away.

Yea I laugh at everyone try to shove AI into hardware and software design of physical products as if there's a market of engineers out there and not just hobbyists keeping things alive in the states. We've long since offshored the development of any physical products that isn't considered ITAR/defense world.

I think there is a great opportunity to use AI in design and development, as long as it is used correctly. Which is as tools to help engineers.

At my previous workplace I wrote a documentation bot which helps people find documentation based on vague descriptions of what they are looking for (like when you know you saw something but you don't know where exactly or what the keyword is). Or by specifying what you want to accomplish.

Mind, the bot would not create answers to questions, it would just ingest existing documentation and point people to things that are relevant to their searches.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#150

Post by sio8ohPi »

ricardobeat wrote: post #146

Aren’t turbulence / tailwinds / low pressure zone the only things that can cause a plane to suddenly lose lift and drop? I don’t think there’s any control input that can cause that, this story doesn’t seem to make sense.

Quantas 72 is a flight that experienced a sudden uncommanded pitch-down (-0.8g), causing injuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

So it's in principle possible.

But passengers are notoriously clueless, to the point that "there was a go around and I thought we were all going to die" is practically a meme in aviation circles. Wait a few days and see what comes to light once it's investigated.

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