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For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

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Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#21

Post by fipar »

aragonite wrote: post #17

In my observation of non-native speakers working & living in the US (a group to which I belong), there's also something special about number-words. If you are a non-native speaker, even if you boast near-perfect English pronunciation and fluency, and are accustomed to using English in all aspects of your life, not just for communication but for e.g. personal note-taking, and even if you haven't spoken/written your na…

While I don't belong to the same group, I've been working remotely for a bit over 2 decades now (not continuously at first, but yes for the last 15 years) so on weekdays I do end up speaking more in English than in Spanish (my native language) with other people, and I definitely have the same issues you mention with number-words.

I'm not sure if it's related but a similar thing happens with spelling. I guess because there's some ordinal relation to the letters in a word? But I feel whenever I need to spell my name in English it takes me about the same mental effort as giving my phone number, and I'm otherwise rather fluent in that language.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#22

Post by aeyes »

> there is something unique about the first language one acquires, which allows the brain to process it with minimal effort

I am only able to overhear normal conversations between other people in public in my native tongue. With any of the other languages I have to actively concentrate on listening. I have been living abroad for almost 10 years and I'm very proficient in the language (not English) so proficiency shouldn't be the issue.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#23

Post by diggan »

aragonite wrote: post #17

In my observation of non-native speakers working & living in the US (a group to which I belong), there's also something special about number-words. If you are a non-native speaker, even if you boast near-perfect English pronunciation and fluency, and are accustomed to using English in all aspects of your life, not just for communication but for e.g. personal note-taking, and even if you haven't spoken/written your na…

Sample size of 1, but I don't think in my mother-tongue anymore, and also don't count numbers in my mother-tongue and find them harder to recall at this point. But I don't speak/listen to it anymore, so that probably influences it.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#24

Post by ska »

rayiner wrote: post #16
OnACoffeeBreak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the follow-up... I grew up speaking only Russian. I moved to the US when I was 15. I had 7 years of deliberate English practice prior to the move and became fluid in it within a year of moving. That was about 30 years ago. Because I moved alone, and didn't seek out Russian speakers for this 30 year duration, I only occasionally spoke Russian. The result is that now my Russian feels like a second language. W…

I learned English around 5-6, and what’s weird to me is I have vivid memories from before that where I’m speaking English but clearly wasn’t.

Memory is a funny thing - much of what we "remember" is created on the fly, based on aggregates. I also have a clear memory from around this age that is impossible.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#25

Post by pcthrowaway »

aragonite wrote: post #17

In my observation of non-native speakers working & living in the US (a group to which I belong), there's also something special about number-words. If you are a non-native speaker, even if you boast near-perfect English pronunciation and fluency, and are accustomed to using English in all aspects of your life, not just for communication but for e.g. personal note-taking, and even if you haven't spoken/written your na…

(as a native English speaker who has spent some time in India) I have such a hard time thinking of numbers in terms of Lakh and Crore, I find even if I can remember the number of decimal places represented by each one, I almost have to visualize the number and move the commas in my mind to be able to make sense of them.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#26

Post by EXOpool »

I truly wonder what dedication one would have to have in order to learn 54 languages. That is just the most impressive even if you know the language at a basic level. Quote from the article: "including one who spoke 54 languages with at least some proficiency."

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#27

Post by ajuc »

EXOpool wrote: post #26

I truly wonder what dedication one would have to have in order to learn 54 languages. That is just the most impressive even if you know the language at a basic level. Quote from the article: "including one who spoke 54 languages with at least some proficiency."

Once you know Russian, Polish and Serbian - you know all Slavic languages basically. Maybe Albanian will give you some problems. That's like 15 for the price of 3.

There's probably similar shortcuts in other language families.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#28

Post by glitchc »

I'm not sure I buy this. According to their definition I'm a polyglot, but I do not experience this difference in mental effort when speaking or listening. I often make jokes crossing two or three different languages, it feels completely natural. My proficiency, however, isn't the same in all of them but that's mainly tied to frequency of use and not lack of knowledge.

I think when languages are learnt plays a critical factor in the measurements. If one learns three languages as a young child at the same time, chances are the level of effort is roughly equivalent when speaking or conversing, and the results will be quite distinct from someone else learning different languages at different points in their life.

Re: For polyglots, there's something special about their native tongue

#29

Post by david422 »

OnACoffeeBreak wrote: post #15
Arc_Orion wrote: post #6

This makes sense. I have fairly good L2 German production, but I go from conversant to barely coherent when fatigued. My L1 English production diminishes, but not nearly as much. Likewise, my friends who speak English as an L2, even those who have spoken it with a strong command for over a decade, will struggle when very tired. Though we usually speak in English (her English is way better than my German), I've had a…

Regarding the follow-up... I grew up speaking only Russian. I moved to the US when I was 15. I had 7 years of deliberate English practice prior to the move and became fluid in it within a year of moving. That was about 30 years ago. Because I moved alone, and didn't seek out Russian speakers for this 30 year duration, I only occasionally spoke Russian. The result is that now my Russian feels like a second language. W…

> became fluid in it

became fluent in it

I think you want this ^^

When I was in 6th grade I had a classmate move from Canada (speaking French) to the US, and after a couple of years speaking English he said that he started to lose his French speaking pretty quickly.

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