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Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

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Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#171

Post by nanolith »

badRNG wrote: post #152
nanolith wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, if you can trust your partner to assist you with this, and if you can guarantee that your partner will not face legal consequences, this would be a great option. Dementia poses a legal wrinkle, in that in many jurisdictions, assisted suicide requires consent at the time of the procedure. In many states in the US, especially in the south, assisted suicide is a boogeyman that runs against prevalent religious…

I'm fairly certain in the US you cannot legally consent to being killed.

It depends on the jurisdiction. A half dozen states now permit assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness.

There's also an interesting bit of case law and state statutes that deals with "drug cocktails", which when combined, will lead to death. A physician can prescribe these in certain places without getting in trouble if certain criteria have been met.

Either way, where this is legal, it requires that the person be of the capacity to consent, which someone with dementia cannot do.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#172

Post by nanolith »

credit_guy wrote: post #170
nanolith wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the belief that in such a situation, a pre-cognitive decline "living will" or dead man switch is appropriate. If I were diagnosed with dementia, I'd build automation to ensure that I'd appear to die a natural death when I enter the steep slope of cognitive decline. It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxi…

> It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin You appear to me to be the type who never writes any bugs in their code.

Or, someone who would thoroughly test such a system and formally verify it long before use, as it would literally be a life or death thing...

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#173

Post by hathawsh »

lainga wrote: post #166
foobarian wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

cf. the many elderly who volunteered to clean up at Fukushima

Fascinating. Here's one article about them: https://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140402430/japanese-seniors-se...

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#175

Post by nottorp »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #133
nottorp wrote: post #35

Isn't this a grievous act of piracy? Daniel Keyes only died in 2014 so this story should be under The Holy Copyright (r) (tm) until 2089! All repent and praise the Mouse!

I was gonna say, I don't think piracy like this is allowed on HN. Of course, piracy and the like is only a thing if someone enforces it, so as long as there's no takedown notices to HN or the site that hosts it there's nothing to do I suppose.

Holy $DEITY, i did the math. Flowers for Algernon was first published in 1959 in story form... this means it will be under copyright for 130 years.

Of course this is a masterpiece and isn't likely to get lost... but which copyright holder is going to keep the B and C lists available for legal access for the whole 130 years?

And speaking of which, is the story form of Flowers for Algernon available legally anywhere? The lengthened book form yes, probably. But personally I think the original form is better.

Thanks Disney.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#176

Post by nottorp »

abraxas wrote: post #65

This is the original short story. I recommend that people read the full book instead or at least read the book first to avoid spoilers. It's at least as good as the short story but expands on the ideas and the story line significantly.

> It's at least as good as the short story but expands on the ideas and the story line significantly.

I don't know about this one (I only read the story) but every time I've read a full novel that was originally a short or novelette it felt dragged out. Even when I didn't know beforehand it was made out of a short.

It's sad that the market for shorts is basically gone.

Oh... wait! Let's go on a tangent.

I used to subscribe to Asimov's on Kindle before they kicked separate subscriptions out and left only Kindle unlimited available...

Asimov's went to some dubious solution through some distributor that had their own mobile app, so I didn't renew there.

Well guess what: I checked Asimov's again and now they still have the dubious app but it looks like you can subscribe directly on their site and get epubs and pdfs! Guess I wasn't the only one who didn't like the dubious app...

There is hope for shorts after all...

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#177

Post by nottorp »

mangamadaiyan wrote: post #25
arethuza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consulted an AI to see if it could recommend a better title for "Lord of the Rings" - and (I am not making this up) it suggested "Ringworld"....

Do I hear the librarian going "Ook"? Sir Terry must be turning in his grave. Edit: Note -- I confused Ringworld with Discworld, as pointed out by rowyourboat below.

But the "AI" recommendation does sound like it came from a Discworld book.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#178

Post by pc86 »

nanolith wrote: post #172
credit_guy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin You appear to me to be the type who never writes any bugs in their code.

Or, someone who would thoroughly test such a system and formally verify it long before use, as it would literally be a life or death thing...

Oh right we'll just "formally verify it," all good then!

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#179

Post by boppo1 »

fairity wrote: post #149
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

Too many of us are attached to our intelligence. I love this story bc it's a reminder that we should value personal excellence over intelligence. By personal excellence I mean making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we all lose our mental faculties. If we value intelligence, in and of itself,…

As another reply has stated, losing some intelligence is not so terrifying.

Alzheimer's is. I've seen it up close over its course twice. It's as bad as people imagine. You never forget the sound of someone drowning in their own saliva.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#180

Post by nox101 »

fairity wrote: post #149
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

Too many of us are attached to our intelligence. I love this story bc it's a reminder that we should value personal excellence over intelligence. By personal excellence I mean making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we all lose our mental faculties. If we value intelligence, in and of itself,…

> With old age, we all lose our mental faculties.

Citation needed

AFAIK it's not remotely true that "we all lose our mental faculties". Plenty of people do not

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