Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

airlive.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 125 posts

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#81

Post by nubinetwork »

adamm255 wrote: post #11
firebaze wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy: * No wheels fell off ( https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/united-... ) * No doors departed the plane ( https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/business/ntsb-boeing-alaska-d... ) * No anti-ice ignited the engines ( https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/faa-proposal-targets... ) * No gear failure ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39644341 ) * No unintended pitch-down ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

Well rested now! Sounds like they may have needed extra time on the ground. Sounds like ATC and a nearby plane was trying to get hold of them while they were napping. Wonder how this would have been handled in another part of the world. Unresponsive aircraft for 28 mins…

While not the exact same situation, it seems the response is to keep trying and to ask nearby planes to find them and get their attention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=027yV9p7W5I

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#82

Post by coumbaya »

dave333 wrote: post #78

Have a countdown that has to be actively reset by the pilot before it gets to zero or it makes an audible alarm. Can allow it to be turned off manually for busy times or just make any pilot action reset the counter. Can research the optimal counter length but maybe a couple of minutes.

There is exactly that on high speed trains (at least in France), I wonder why it's not on airplanes.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#83

Post by seanmcdirmid »

svat wrote: post #73
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42

It’s actually harder to do nothing and just watch things, it’s its own special kind of fatigue. I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t happen more often.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t happen more often. From context I guess you meant either "I wouldn’t be surprised if this happens more often" or "I would be surprised if this doesn’t happen more often." ( https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=273 has many fun examples of this sort of thing)

Oops. And this is what happens when you accidentally double your negatives, thanks for the point out even if it’s too late to edit.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#84

Post by qingcharles »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #26
amluto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but there are plenty of other options. For example, a dead-man switch could: Send an alert via transponders that it has been activated. Maintain level flight but avoid terrain. (After a waiting period in which a pilot can deactivate this feature.) Or descend to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is lost. Activate a mode in which the plane could be remotely flown or directed to land itself. Alert flight cr…

> Maintain level flight but avoid terrain Your other ideas are good. But this could kill people if it misfires and takes the plane off course and too far from an airfield.

Not having anyone flying the plane when it is on manual control can also kill people...

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#85

Post by syndicatedjelly »

LM358 wrote: post #53
samtho wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an “armchair expert” take on this. Planes are not fully autonomous. They will not be for a very long time due to the regulatory environment aviation is entrenched in.

Frankly it seems more like an "SWE take" more than a regular armchair take.

So it’s even more uninformed than a normal armchair take?

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#86

Post by JumpCrisscross »

qingcharles wrote: post #84
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maintain level flight but avoid terrain Your other ideas are good. But this could kill people if it misfires and takes the plane off course and too far from an airfield.

Not having anyone flying the plane when it is on manual control can also kill people...

> Not having anyone flying the plane when it is on manual control can also kill people

Not as quickly. Routes are programmed into an airliner before takeoff. Those routes are planned with emergency landing in mind. Left to its own devices, a plane flying its flight path is safer than one simply holding FL (while avoiding terrain).

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#87

Post by dataviz1000 »

taf2 wrote: post #58
dataviz1000 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, I was a private yacht chef for 7 years. On long legs of a trip I had to hold watch at the helm for 3 or 4 hour shifts while everyone else rested for their watch. Staying awake while using auto pilot was a special type of mental anguish.

I did delivers up and down the Atlantic in 2000s I remember it being awesome. Granted I was 20 and like the time we got too close to a us aircraft carrier and they launched a helicopter that did a fly over to check us out that was pretty great. We also always had lines out to catch fish and let me tell you when that line caught something didn’t matter if it was your shift or not it was “fish on” everyone jumping out…

We passed an aircraft carrier going up the East Coast while they were doing exercises. They radioed us and made it clear not to come close to the ship. I have video of fighter jets doing low passes over our yacht every 15 minutes or so using us as a practice target. Going South once, as we came towards the inlet at Fernandina Beach on the Florida, Georgia line, a nuclear submarine was leaving port. I was at the helm in the afternoon while everyone else was sleeping. Good thing I was awake because we were met with the Coast Guard helicopter with a mounted machine gun pointed at me and a Coast Guard response (defender class) boat with a .50-caliber machine gun also fixed on me while they sat off our bow. I communicated with them on the radio; they said I should hold my position and not move. The sub came out with two large ships on each side with blast shields on the each ship.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#88

Post by dzhiurgis »

theoreticalmal wrote: post #66
wlesieutre wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the “mostly self driving” car systems where the driver is expected to pay attention well enough to take over if needed

This is the worst of both worlds, I would (and do) rather just drive “manually”

Having done both, there’s just no going back to boat or car without autopilot.

Definitely slept a bit while doing night passage (alcohol). Would be impossible in a car given how much driver monitoring is out there.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#89

Post by dzhiurgis »

aaomidi wrote: post #44
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42

It’s actually harder to do nothing and just watch things, it’s its own special kind of fatigue. I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t happen more often.

One of the reasons the current "Self Driving" cars kinda suck. Majority of the time you're just not doing anything, but still have to be 100% attentive.

> still have to be 100% attentive.

Starting absolutes is poor.

This just an oxymoron. Highways are designed to take attention off.

On a chill highway drive I’d guess most drivers are no more than 50% attentive, driver assist or not.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#90

Post by tiagod »

baron816 wrote: post #27

Can someone explain to me why we still need pilots? Could we at least have pilots serve as a backup to a fully autonomous system?

You would end up in a world where no human pilots remain to land aircraft where the automation isn't ready to do so.
Post reply on HN