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Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

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Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#41
post #2

First question - how do we tie this to Boeing? (A joke, of course) Second, interesting to note planes don’t have deadman switches.

Unlike trains, there isn't one action that is basically always safe (stop the train). A dead man switch activating at the wrong time, could itself cause an accident.

Another of seemingly infinite reasons why trains > planes.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#44

It’s actually harder to do nothing and just watch things, it’s its own special kind of fatigue. I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t happen more often.

One of the reasons the current "Self Driving" cars kinda suck. Majority of the time you're just not doing anything, but still have to be 100% attentive.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#46

Not familiar with any of this - I'm guessing it's ok for one pilot to be asleep as long as there's another active one?

Sounds like it: "The PIC then asked permission to rest from the SIC and was granted. A few seconds later, the PIC slept and the SIC then took over the PIC duty as PM."

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#48

Not familiar with any of this - I'm guessing it's ok for one pilot to be asleep as long as there's another active one?

Happens all the time.

Both asleep, though, is a big problem. About ten years ago there was a (Delta?) flight to Vegas (?) with both pilots asleep. They flew past their destination and went on their merry way until a flight attendant check up on them.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#49
post #2

First question - how do we tie this to Boeing? (A joke, of course) Second, interesting to note planes don’t have deadman switches.

> deadman switches

Seems like they could address this by just changing procedures.

If one pilot wants to take a nap, require a third crew member to come sit in the cockpit and make sure the other pilot doesn't doze off. When two pilots are awake, they can monitor each other, but if one is (intentionally) asleep, they can't do that, so have someone take over that function.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#50
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike trains, there isn't one action that is basically always safe (stop the train). A dead man switch activating at the wrong time, could itself cause an accident.

That’s true, but there are plenty of other options. For example, a dead-man switch could: Send an alert via transponders that it has been activated. Maintain level flight but avoid terrain. (After a waiting period in which a pilot can deactivate this feature.) Or descend to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is lost. Activate a mode in which the plane could be remotely flown or directed to land itself. Alert flight cr…

I recall reading that certain aircraft manufacturers do offer more robust security features if the airlines are willing to pay for them. I don't have a link or source handy, but it's entirely possible that these features have been discussed, but through the lens of how much more would it cost to implement them.
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