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New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

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11–20 of 25 posts

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#11
post #8

> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the legal foundation that allows them to randomly search people who are simply going about their day? What happens whenever people say "no, you can't search my bag." ?

The same one that lets them search you at airports. You can say no, but then you cannot board the train.

they stop and frisk people on the street in NY too

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#12
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same one that lets them search you at airports. You can say no, but then you cannot board the train.

they stop and frisk people on the street in NY too

You can say no, but then you shouldn't walk on the streets.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#13
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they stop and frisk people on the street in NY too

You can say no, but then you shouldn't walk on the streets.

I smell sarcasm! :) But seriously, riding the subway is not a right. They make rules for the subway and enforce them at their own leisure. But it's 100% legal to turn someone away if they don't comply with rules they make up themselves. MTA is a private entity.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#14
post #3

> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the legal foundation that allows them to randomly search people who are simply going about their day? What happens whenever people say "no, you can't search my bag." ?

I am not a lawyer, but I agree, this seems to be on questionable legal footing... Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things t…

This only applies to the gov't

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#15
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a lawyer, but I agree, this seems to be on questionable legal footing... Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things t…

This only applies to the gov't

If you do some reading, I believe you will find that the National Guard is part of the government.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#17

> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the legal foundation that allows them to randomly search people who are simply going about their day? What happens whenever people say "no, you can't search my bag." ?

You're talking about getting onto an enclosed, protected space. You have the Constitutional right as an American to not be unreasonably searched, but that doesn't mean you have the right of free movement to any and all places not owned by you personally without restrictions imposed by whoever controls that space, even when it's the government. If you're trying to get into a courthouse, the white house, an airplane, a train, they can search you first.

What happens if you refuse a search is you leave the platform and get back onto the street where you're allowed to move about freely without being subject to search.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#18
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same one that lets them search you at airports. You can say no, but then you cannot board the train.

they stop and frisk people on the street in NY too

Legally speaking they need "reasonable cause" to stop and frisk people on the streets (how that works in practice is a whole different discussion). At the subway entrance they can search all the bags they want for any or no reason.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#19

> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the legal foundation that allows them to randomly search people who are simply going about their day? What happens whenever people say "no, you can't search my bag." ?

The sister comment describes a court ruling that bag searches are permissible for anti-terrorism purposes. However this new deployment is being challenged by the ACLU because the bag searches are being done for general law-enforcement reasons. I guess we'll see what the courts rule.

Re: New York State Deploys National Guard to NYC Subways to Fight Crime (Bloomberg)

#20

It’d be great if we were mature enough as a society to have a nice chat about why there is so much suffering and crime in American cities but alas.

Is there really that much? NYC murder rates are down 80% from their peak in 1990. We're roughly at 1950s rates.
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