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Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

raptori.dev

61–70 of 77 posts

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#61
You can't have imposter syndrome with out the conscious or unconscious idea that you've "fooled" all the rubes around you into thinking you're good at something.

Even in doubt you're still doing some mental gymnastics that allow you to place yourself above your peers. It's inherently self centered and arrogant way of thinking about yourself. The opposite of self aware.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of my projects are failures, and the 10% which are successes would have never happened if I was too afraid to start them. The successes looked just as likely to be failures as the actual failures from the outset. I disagree that "failure is bad and should be avoided". The degree to which failure is bad and should be avoided depends entirely on the gravity of the consequences. When taking on an ambitious programmi…

> 90% of my projects are failures, and the 10% which are successes would have never happened if I was too afraid to start them. You should definitely try things that might fail. However, failure within those projects should be actively avoided. These pithy quotes that try to remove any downside from failure are misleading. In business, failure has consequences. You need to understand what's at risk and make a best ef…

Sayings are pithy to evoke a general idea, even emotion. Obviously each individual still needs to apply a risk-benefit analysis when pursuing something that could result in failure. But there are many types of failure and it's possible that those who are risk-adverse are overly afraid of the trivial kind. What you're saying is correct, but no more correct than those pithy quotes. I guess the meta-advice is to regard wisdom carefully, with nuance, and not just follow it blindly.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A musician fails to perform a piece hundreds or thousands of times while learning it. A programmer fails to apply a concept many times until they fully understand it. To imply that failure is not normal and not alright is to imply that everybody should be able to perfectly do anything in their life without any prior practice. Clearly, the word "failure" in this context is insufficient, because we all would agree that…

words have connotation and failure does not mean mistake.

Failing to perform a piece is not a mistake, it's a failure. The word simply means "an attempt that did not succeed". Failed attempts are a natural part of progress and learning.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote it many times. Failure is not normal and it is speaks badly of you no matter what's the reason. Most people including me are not perfect and it will happen but that doesn't mean failure is alright, that means that we're an problem. The only thing one has any right in their life to ever blame are themselves.

A musician fails to perform a piece hundreds or thousands of times while learning it. A programmer fails to apply a concept many times until they fully understand it. To imply that failure is not normal and not alright is to imply that everybody should be able to perfectly do anything in their life without any prior practice. Clearly, the word "failure" in this context is insufficient, because we all would agree that…

To an extent, why not? When I was child, it was expected of me. I failed in that, but I realise that I'm the only person to blame for it and it means I wasn't intelligent enough.

If it will take me 50x tries to do something and someone else of that same background will do it in 25x, that means I was doing something utterly wrong.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A musician fails to perform a piece hundreds or thousands of times while learning it. A programmer fails to apply a concept many times until they fully understand it. To imply that failure is not normal and not alright is to imply that everybody should be able to perfectly do anything in their life without any prior practice. Clearly, the word "failure" in this context is insufficient, because we all would agree that…

To an extent, why not? When I was child, it was expected of me. I failed in that, but I realise that I'm the only person to blame for it and it means I wasn't intelligent enough. If it will take me 50x tries to do something and someone else of that same background will do it in 25x, that means I was doing something utterly wrong.

Or they were more naturally inclined than you, or that they had more existing analogous experience than you.

Either way, if your 49 failures were unacceptable, then so we their 24 failures. This conversation was never about comparing ourselves to those who are better or worse, but about the meaning and acceptability of "failure".

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of my projects are failures, and the 10% which are successes would have never happened if I was too afraid to start them. The successes looked just as likely to be failures as the actual failures from the outset. I disagree that "failure is bad and should be avoided". The degree to which failure is bad and should be avoided depends entirely on the gravity of the consequences. When taking on an ambitious programmi…

> 90% of my projects are failures, and the 10% which are successes would have never happened if I was too afraid to start them. You should definitely try things that might fail. However, failure within those projects should be actively avoided. These pithy quotes that try to remove any downside from failure are misleading. In business, failure has consequences. You need to understand what's at risk and make a best ef…

> You should definitely try things that might fail. > > However, failure within those projects should be actively avoided.

I agree with that. I agree with all of what you're saying. I don't think the pithy sayings are telling people to actively fail, though. The point is to not become overly avoidant of taking on ventures because of a fear of failure. And I think the avoidance of failure is a bigger thing than you're making it out to be. Most people who I know who don't achieve their goals and dreams fail to do so because they simply never start, or they start and see how hard it is going to be and then give up. I know very few people who jump headlong into things and fail often, and they are also the people I know with the most successes in their lives. Anecdotal, but the fear of failure preventing people from attempting anything that they want to achieve is a real and very common thing.

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

words have connotation and failure does not mean mistake.

Failing to perform a piece is not a mistake, it's a failure. The word simply means "an attempt that did not succeed". Failed attempts are a natural part of progress and learning.

I recommend you read the following.

https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/mistake-vs-failure

Re: Impostor Syndrome vs. the Dunning-Kruger Effect

#70
post #13

I feel like some perspective needs to be applied to these popular terms. Imposter syndrome: there's a "sadness is not depression" thing going on here. There is an actual Imposter Syndrome that afflicts people who are highly qualified/credentialed, people who have qualified for entrance into elite programs, and put in the time and effort to progress to graduation; and yet for psychological reasons, they have great sel…

> Not everybody suffers clinical depression, and it does not go away on its own.

In many cases, depression does in fact go away on its own.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10364186/

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22883473/

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