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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that how we got "freedom fries" and "with us or against us"?

We temporarily renamed some fast food that wasn’t even correctly named after them, and made a bunch of juvenile jokes about their performance in WW2 for a couple decades. I dunno, I was just a kid at the time, but I didn’t get the impression that we were taking their complaints very seriously.

I was a little bit older, and I do remember the hostility we had towards them (I was studying French at the time). But yeah, it was more like the way you'd boo the opposing sports team, not like we are at risk at war with them or anything...

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And delicious meatballs for the troops

It isn't hard to make better meatballs than what Ikea sells. For that matter if you think Ikea furniture is good you have no idea what good really is.

I wonder if they're tastier than the average MRE? Sure, you can always make better food with some effort, but next to Costco chicken bakes, Ikea meatballs probably have one of the world's highest convenience-to-deliciousness ratios.

As a kid, I used to loooooove spending the day at Ikea, bouncing around all the beds and hiding in the fake rooms, but mostly just because we'd end up at the food court at the end... mmmm.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#673
post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the invasion of Ukraine for the second time in 10 years, and the official threats of using nuclear weapons, rearming doesn't sound as bad as before.

> and the official threats of using nuclear weapons "Why are we shocked? Of course if a country has a weapon it also conceives a situation where it would use it. If a country would never under no circumstance use a weapon it would not have the weapon at all. Every country who has a weapon also conceives a scenario when to use it. Even if they don't issue reminders" -- My own translation from an interview to Alessandr…

To decomission a weapon is to weaken the army. Rulers must be very careful about taking power from the army, as army officials are wary of being stripped of power. A ruler must be in the good grace of the army.

For that reason, it is difficult to get rid of inherited weapons. A plausible justification is required.

With Putin, however, Russia is strenghtening an army. It is correct in this case, I think, to verbally remind your enemies of the threat they represent. E.g.Trump, in the US, has a strong discourse position to pull the US from conflict, because his supporters want "To make America great again", the world be damned.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#674
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just explaining why it got there, and you even acknowledge there should've been wake up calls in 2008 and 2014, but Europe collectively ignored them.

Of course I'm explaining it, because there's a reason why European countries haven't been stockpiling weapons for decades and have been dependent on the USA. You brought up the dependence on the USA first, I explained why that is: > In most ways yes, but militarily there's definitely some dependence on the US. A lot of European militaries were found to have relatively bare cupboards when the time to donate things to…

> You brought up the dependence on the USA first, I explained why that is:

No, I didn't. Go back and read the chain again if you think I'm the first one to bring it up.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principle is interdependency, but in practice many European militaries don't have a ton to give. Since the cold war ended, many just sort of coasted on military spending. Of course, since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, that's changed for a lot of them. There's renewed interest in taking the defense budget seriously.

> Since the cold war ended, many just sort of coasted on military spending. So did the US until the 2001 (and, actually, the free fall in US military spending relative to GDP started well before the end of the cold war), and by the 2010s it was back falling in the US, too. > Of course, since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, that's changed for a lot of them. It actually changed since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 for…

Yeah, no. The US reduced spending, that's true, but it never dropped nearly as low as so many European countries.

> by the 2010s it was back falling in the US, too.

Because of the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan winding down, no?

> It actually changed since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 for the non-US members of NATO (which was also the trigger for the NATO defense spending target.) It changed for the US after the 2022 escalation (US defense spending as a share of GDP declined between 2014 and the 2022 escalation.)

Not really, no. The US took Russia's 2014 invasion more seriously than most of Western Europe did.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#676

Being a NATO member gives a nation more security than nuclear weapons, effectively. Nuclear states can and HAVE gone to wars - but no one wants to mess with the devastating conventional power of NATO. After the recent gutting, Russia has a few dozen SU-34s that can fly. NATO has thousands of planes.

> NATO has thousands of planes. You mean US has. And someone like Trump may decide to not engage in conflict as part of NATO.

Wasn't Trump just upset NATO members weren't paying their dues? What am I missing here?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#677
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NATO has thousands of planes. You mean US has. And someone like Trump may decide to not engage in conflict as part of NATO.

Wasn't Trump just upset NATO members weren't paying their dues? What am I missing here?

Its valid critics, but the point is that vast majority of NATO strength depends on current ruler in US who may not necessary decide to protect NATO coutries.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#678
post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, Russia will lose any moment now :D

The fact that Russia, without foreign support or not, has not managed to capture one of the poorest states in Europe is a joke. Imagine the US failing to capture Mexico after 2 years, even if Mexico got weapon supplies from abroad. That would totally discredit the US military.

It could be that moral of Ukrainians is deciding factor: million of civilians ready to turn into soldiers, dig into the ground and die there is very strong force.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany will be dead in 50 years by demographic suicide anyway. (Like China, conveniently.)

As opposed to what, the United States of Guatemala? It’s more or less the same story everywhere in the developed world. At least China’s not seeking to replace their extant populations with foreigners. Really strange seeing people (often gleefully) parrot these talking points, unaware of their own malaise.

I think the United States and a India are much better positioned with respect to demographics, with like a generational lead on Europe and Asia. The U.S. has lots more millennials, with much more balanced sex ratios, than Europe or Asia, at least in proportion. Feel free to fact check me though.

Eventually, a generation or two later, the same phenomenon would hit them as well. But it's difficult to reason about what the world will be like even after it gets Europe and Asia. The world economy and geopolitical community would collapse or something, which could influence demographics in yet further weird ways. :O

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

> I humbly bow before the Ukraine. Note that “Ukraine” is now preferred to “the Ukraine”; the latter term was used in Soviet times to diminish its autonomy by implying it was just a region of the USSR.

This is widely believed, and of course Ukrainians prefer no article, and I'm happy to accede to their preferences, just as with their preferred transliteration of Kyiv.

But the theory that this has any impact on how English speakers view sovereignty is also completely bunk. While English does indeed use "the" for some geographical regions and features (but not universally; English rarely is so simple), in international contexts and sub-regions, that's swamped by more salient examples. Look right there at your use of "the" USSR. We don't talk about "the Scotland" and "the England" as part of "United Kingdom", nor about "the California" and "the Texas" as purely internal regions of "United States", but quite the reverse, reserving. In keeping with groups of smaller units, there's also the EU. There are also many examples of full names that include qualifying adjectives that take "the" -- i.e. the Central African Republic, the Dominican Republic, and historically the Czech Republic (now Czechia is preferred, of course).

There are also, of course, countries named after geographical features that traditionally do have the definite article, but this is rarely taken as a slight against their sovereignty or an accusation that they're not a real country: the Ivory Coast, The Netherlands, many, many island nations.

And why would the Russians even think to use articles to make this distinction? Neither language even has a definite article! There is a history of using different prepositions in these languages ("in" vs "on", roughly) which does have this suggestion, but it really doesn't parallel English usage of articles.

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