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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#661

Post by mopsi »

nikolay wrote: post #625
luuurker wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal posts keep moving. Let's get back to what you wrote above. Are you able to find that agreement about NATO expansion or not? Can you explain why countries want to join NATO so bad?

The US Embassador at the time confirmed this was agreed upon!

"Myth," Gorbachev said in 2014 interview to ZDF. He added that there is nothing in writing because there was no agreement. Had there been an agreement, they would've written it down. Clip: https://twitter.com/splendid_pete/status/1650735533826375680

And as a bonus feature, in the same clip, USSR's Minister of Defense (1987-1991) says that he's never even heard about it. USSR's Minister of Foreign Affairs gave a similar interview in 2014 too and also called the story BS, adding that he finds nothing wrong with the way Eastern Europe joined NATO.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#662

Post by RajT88 »

tim333 wrote: post #654
RajT88 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord. I was not aware of this guy before, but his position seems to be akin to suggesting a woman deserved to be raped because of how she was dressed. Even people pretty forgiving of his essays acknowledge he's habitually at odds with basic facts and history. Not a wingnut, per se, but on the same spectrum of people divorced from reality. It's too bad as well, because US foreign policy is deserving of more scrut…

I have mixed feelings on him. On the one hand it is a bit - woman should expect to be raped because of how she was dressed. On the other hand he's predicted Putin/Russia's action quite accurately. I think he errs a bit in suggesting such behaviour is normal for all great powers. The Americans and Chinese while imperfect aren't that bad. And the EU if you can call it a great power does nothing like that - the rape pil…

He's said in a few different pieces that Putin 100% does not want to ingest Ukraine into Russia, that he's only interested in "lopping off its limbs" and keeping it out of NATO.

Which is at odds with what Putin has said many times, that Ukraine is not a real nation, but a part of Russia, and Kyiv historically was central to the Russian empire. It's really clear that Putin wants all of Ukraine, not just bits of it. Putin has almost (but not quite) come out and said it. It's an open question on whether Putin would stop with Ukraine (we'll find out only if he takes Ukraine), but there's things he's said which hint that he won't.

> On the other hand he's predicted Putin/Russia's action quite accurately.

So far. At some point, he's going to have to reckon with all the stuff Putin has said about his ambitions that he ignored.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#663

Post by pphysch »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #493
pphysch wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Conspiracy theories see things when things aren't there. She had a political career for 30 years and she claimed to retire. Did you consider that she perhaps just wants to retire? NATO has all the new ( and strong) members that wanted to join. Seems like a good time like any other to me, additionally she's 63. Passed the smell test for me.

> Conspiracy theories see things when things aren't there

Exactly. They make outrageously evidence-free statements like "Victoria Nuland isn't important".

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#664

Post by bumby »

lostmsu wrote: post #657
bumby wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be much better if people focused downvoting on comments that go against HN guidelines rather than questions or comments they disagree with.

No, if a comment is against guidelines you are supposed to flag it.

How would you propose a method of limiting the downvoting of comments that are salient and relevant but otherwise elicit a knee-jerk emotionally disagreeable response? Or do you consider that ability a feature? It seems to me to erode curious debate.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#665

Post by NicoJuicy »

chasd00 wrote: post #273
MaxPengwing wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden joining means they have lost the Baltic Sea as the only entrance is now controlled by two NATO countries. Finland Joining has helped lock down the Baltic sea but most importantly is a staging ground for cutting logistics to the largest military complex on the Kola peninsula. This war is not just about Russias energy politics, it's also very much about their need for more maritime access. THis map shows where R…

NATO is a defensive pact, if there was a NATO naval blockade there would already be war with NATO which almost certainly means escalation to nuclear war. that's my take anyway.

Nope. Nuclear war is just bluff from Russia.

Just think about it. They won't even have decided which country or city to hit.

While the only one in Russia that matters is Moscow.

Or putin's castles, but that's no city.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#667

Post by red-iron-pine »

dataflow wrote: post #175
empath-nirvana wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if they ask. If you've got it handled, you don't need to invoke article 5.

Even if they ask, it seems to me you get to decide how you want to get involved (if at all).

sure. you don't have to show up. but then you're out of the club.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#669

Post by 7moritz7 »

valval wrote: post #552
renegade-otter wrote: post #108

Being a NATO member gives a nation more security than nuclear weapons, effectively. Nuclear states can and HAVE gone to wars - but no one wants to mess with the devastating conventional power of NATO. After the recent gutting, Russia has a few dozen SU-34s that can fly. NATO has thousands of planes.

Oh yeah, Russia will lose any moment now :D

The fact that Russia, without foreign support or not, has not managed to capture one of the poorest states in Europe is a joke. Imagine the US failing to capture Mexico after 2 years, even if Mexico got weapon supplies from abroad. That would totally discredit the US military.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#670

Post by riku_iki »

7moritz7 wrote: post #668
riku_iki wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but not in thousands

Actually yes, NATO without the US still has several thousand planes.

since original topic was about attack aircrafts, my estimate is that NATO without US has several hundreds ready to use attack aircrafts. Specifically largest contributors: Germany, GB, France have 150-200 aircrafts each according to wiki(many of them old and outdated), with half of them likely not ready for combat.

If you put various trainer, transportation, support role aircrafts, maybe it will be few thousands.

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