GitHub, seriously, if Torwalds takes the time to point out a flaw in your software, listen to him! Really.
Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
251–260 of 288 posts
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#252I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…
"The truth shouldn't be sugarcoated." Okay, fine. The way he handled this particular issue seems like a dick move. Being one of the godfathers of computer science isn't a license to act like a jerk. There's no question he's right, but there's nice-right and jerk-right. This sort of response seems like it only inhibits people's desire to get involved.
It's hard to fully articulate how wrong this and so many other comments in this thread are.
People have the right to be offended, they however DON'T have the right to not be offended.
Linus is a nice guy, he works well with others and has built some of the most amazing software in the world today. I work on the kernel and other system code on a day to day basis and have participated in threads with Linus before. When you are wrong he tells you so, in a very clear manner that outlines exactly WHY you are wrong.
Sure, he isn't always concise and succinct but that isn't really the point. If he wants to interject a few choice "swear words" to describe how badly you did something that's fine by me. As long has he describes exactly what is wrong and how to fix it.
People need to get a lot less wrapped up in HOW something is said and focus on WHAT is said. The essence of Linus's comments on this pull request can be summarized easily. GitHub's pull/request features are inadequate for kernel goverernance - and as the creator of git and designer of the inbuilt pull-request functionality he thinks this is subjectively retarded.
If you read past any of that and start saying crap like "he could have been more polite" to him then you have obviously missed the point. It's not his (or anyones) job to cater to peoples inability to grow a skin.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#253Well here's the thing: Linus is right. Linus does not hesitate to criticize and always think about things before declaring them cool. Oh he makes errors like everybody. He's usually not always very nice in messages (read LKML and you'll understand). But he's usually right and he's usually not writing random things because "it is trendy". So GitHub is trendy. Linus doesn't care. Linus cares for the good features and p…
I really don't understand why GitHub should fix it, though. It's not like it's impossible to put on a README or something else in a prominent place that pull requests need to follow certain standards.
With Linus' current work flow (pull requests via e-mail), it's still perfectly possible to have a horribly structured pull request, and so they've added on rules beyond what the technology can do for how pull requests ought to be formatted. I'm failing to see why the same rules can't be applied to GitHub.
Linus invented Git, and it's perfectly possible to have single character commit messages in Git. I'm not quite sure why it's a failing of GitHub that it takes a similarly loose approach to how it deals with pull requests.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#254antirez via twitter: "Linus, I'm with you. Preserve your bastion of code quality as it's something rare and rapidly fading away." https://twitter.com/#!/antirez/status/201065752395124737
I accept and agree with the statement "detailed commit messages and pull requests with context are objectively more useful", but I don't see how GitHub fails in that regard any more than Git does.
You can have horrible commit messages and pull requests using e-mail pull requests. You can have the same with GitHub. Ultimately, the decisions of what sort of quality you demand on pull requests ought to be up to the maintainer, and GitHub is doing the right thing by not enforcing a standard that doesn't work for the majority of people.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#255I hope the github folks get involved in this. I'm specially interested in what they have to say about why they decided to go with what Linus calls _their own totally inferior version_. Love this no-nonsense style, but let me say that it's no only the style, but that Linus has enough on his side to back it up.
How is GitHubs "version" inferior? The technology that Linus uses to do pull requests (email) validates even less than a GitHub pull request does. The Linux kernel and git have standards that enforce that e-mail pull requests have to follow certain guidelines, but it's not impossible to apply these guidelines to GitHub.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
tell me what "PC" means or go hang yourself.
Political correctness. Mostly comes from USA, but exists also in other countries. Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people.
>Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people.
Which is probably also the best example of why PC is dumb. For example, it's hard to criticize Israel in German politics. At best, you'll be looked at in funny ways, at the worst you'll be accused of being a nazi.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
so the question is 'what does this do?' and the answer is 'fix X' then it makes more sense. Better to say "fixes" then, so it's distinguishable from the use in a phrase as an imperative. "We need to fix this."
I've always found it useful to start writing my commit messages as if they begain with "When applied, this commit will..." ex: "Resolve #459." "Fix the PDF rendering issue on older clients." "Revert commit 1234567."
Remone will, and you get more versatile comments.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Political correctness. Mostly comes from USA, but exists also in other countries. Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people.
> Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people. Which is probably also the best example of why PC is dumb. For example, it's hard to criticize Israel in German politics. At best, you'll be looked at in funny ways, at the worst you'll be accused of being a nazi.
There are good things in the anti nazi movement. People still remember and they don't want it to happen again.
Still I don't understand why you can't criticize the politics of Israel in Germany. Even my Israeli friends do it.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people. Which is probably also the best example of why PC is dumb. For example, it's hard to criticize Israel in German politics. At best, you'll be looked at in funny ways, at the worst you'll be accused of being a nazi.
There are good things in the anti nazi movement. People still remember and they don't want it to happen again. Still I don't understand why you can't criticize the politics of Israel in Germany. Even my Israeli friends do it.
You can. Just make sure you say something smart, and everything is fine.
The shitstorm might be, however, a little bigger than usual if you say something stupid. (Günter Grass' poem etc.)
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people. Which is probably also the best example of why PC is dumb. For example, it's hard to criticize Israel in German politics. At best, you'll be looked at in funny ways, at the worst you'll be accused of being a nazi.
There are good things in the anti nazi movement. People still remember and they don't want it to happen again. Still I don't understand why you can't criticize the politics of Israel in Germany. Even my Israeli friends do it.
I never tried to imply that it's bad to be vigilant of fascism and right-wing
ideology. I'm very much among the first people who'd step up to prevent an
abomination like the Third Reich to ever happen again. I hold high respect for
people such as Stauffenberg and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who risked and ultimately
laid down their lives fighting against the Nazis.
The motivation behind the German PC towards Jews and Israel isn't motivated by that, though. Maybe it originally was, but these days it's but a way to silence opposition to the questionable politics of the Israeli government. To be fair, it's slowly fading out, probably not in small part thanks to the emergence of the internet and new political movements, such as the Pirate Party.
Also, it's not like you can't criticize Israeli politics in Germany. It's that you will see few politicians who are willing to do it openly, because it's a minefield.