Jesus, watching some of the little snowflakes on here whining about how Linus chooses to run his repository is seriously disheartening. When did the the tech community get infiltrated by so many prima donnas and drama queens? If you have a problem with Linus' style or how he chooses to use the tool he made, build an alternative (if you can...) or swap over to a different stack and get on with your life. Stop whining.
Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
231–240 of 288 posts
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#232The man wrote git for use on the Linux kernel. Trying to argue with him about how to use git with respect to your tiny patch to the Linux kernel seems... like missing the point on a great many things. The rules for submitting kernel patches are laid out in great detail. Do you really thing arguing with the gatekeeper is going to change anything?
In that vein, when somebody tells Linus: "You might have fun raging on the internet, but I think your goals would be better served if..." He rightly responds: "Umm. I think I've been able to reach my goals on the internet better than most people." I believe in civility and courtesy in many areas, and Linus doesn't phrase things exactly as I would. But then, I don't have his responsibility or experiences, either - and…
It's kind of Finnish way of expressing things. We might say "jos sä teet tän näin, voisit vetää ittes hirteen" (if you do it like this, you might want to hang yourself) without actually meaning it literally. We have less PC compared to many other countries and I still find it refreshing while living outside of the country.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#233The man wrote git for use on the Linux kernel. Trying to argue with him about how to use git with respect to your tiny patch to the Linux kernel seems... like missing the point on a great many things. The rules for submitting kernel patches are laid out in great detail. Do you really thing arguing with the gatekeeper is going to change anything?
In that vein, when somebody tells Linus: "You might have fun raging on the internet, but I think your goals would be better served if..." He rightly responds: "Umm. I think I've been able to reach my goals on the internet better than most people." I believe in civility and courtesy in many areas, and Linus doesn't phrase things exactly as I would. But then, I don't have his responsibility or experiences, either - and…
The problem is that many times you can't have one thing without another. What I mean is that what Linus accomplished is also fruit of his character, you need character and be opinionated to do "git" for instance. Or even to make the Linux kernel the success and good piece of software it is, with many contributions: what separates a big software project to become a mess is character.
And the side effect is that he gets bored to listen at stuff that he thinks are silly. But see it from a different perspective, Linus is really, culturally an hacker, and not an academia professor. He is out there on github writing flames, arguing with people that have a github account completely clean and never wrote possibly a line of code at all. Exposing himself in the process to insults and so forth.
I really admire him.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
In that vein, when somebody tells Linus: "You might have fun raging on the internet, but I think your goals would be better served if..." He rightly responds: "Umm. I think I've been able to reach my goals on the internet better than most people." I believe in civility and courtesy in many areas, and Linus doesn't phrase things exactly as I would. But then, I don't have his responsibility or experiences, either - and…
It's kind of Finnish way of expressing things. We might say "jos sä teet tän näin, voisit vetää ittes hirteen" (if you do it like this, you might want to hang yourself) without actually meaning it literally. We have less PC compared to many other countries and I still find it refreshing while living outside of the country.
tell me what "PC" means or go hang yourself.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of Finnish way of expressing things. We might say "jos sä teet tän näin, voisit vetää ittes hirteen" (if you do it like this, you might want to hang yourself) without actually meaning it literally. We have less PC compared to many other countries and I still find it refreshing while living outside of the country.
tell me what "PC" means or go hang yourself.
Political correctness. Mostly comes from USA, but exists also in other countries. Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you think of the change set as the subject, so the question is 'what does this do?' and the answer is 'fix X' then it makes more sense. Past tense suggests you might be thinking of it as a journal or something that you're not supposed to do with git due to rebase etc.; each commit ought to stand on its own. That said I don't think this is significant enough to add up to a compelling reason either way.
Sorry, pardon the ignorance, but how does past tense imply something that would be affected by rebase? It may not be linear history, but it definitely happened in the past. I guess I always looked at more as: "here's a patch", "what did you do?" If it's just a tomato/tomato thing (yeah, that doesn't come out well in text), just let me know.
Because rebase, and rebase -i especially, gives you the ability to break your patches into discrete this-one-one-goddamn-thing patches (which is awkward in a "oh, you committed it? Then you committed it forever" SCM like Perforce or SVN), you should do so. It makes it a lot easier to review than the "so this does X, but also fixes some syntax errors and adds logging" style. And that means you should make the patch comment reflect what it is doing. Some errors here are inevitable but it's something to which I aspire.
Edit: to be a little clearer; your traditional SCM has a write-once-never-change model for the trunk of development. This has a problem in a peer review situation, and the problem is this: I may go forth with the best of intentions to decompose things into discrete patches. But when you get down to brass tacks, changes to the system tend to happen in any given order--you might discover a latent bug when testing your feature that has nothing to do with your feature. Now you have two choices: you can wait and commit nothing until everything is great, which means you're not integrating with the mainline, which means that integrating will be incredibly painful, which leads to locks; or you commit as it comes in the moment, which is much better for integration and much easier to back out partial changes and generally get all of the non-backup elements of an SCM, but which is the very devil to peer review. With rebase -i, it is quite easy to commit in the second style in the moment and then clean them up for peer review later; that is the ability to revise history means you can make decisions immediately without worrying that they will be cast in stone forever and ever anon.
I wasn't always this much of a hardliner on the subject, but my current job uses Perforce as the main SCM and I have realized that I disagree with almost every decision Perforce makes across the board. I still use it, because any SCM is way better than no SCM and I don't want to explain git to everyone else, but my actual development occurs with git-p4.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
tell me what "PC" means or go hang yourself.
Political correctness. Mostly comes from USA, but exists also in other countries. Like in Germany people have lots of PC for Jewish people.
Thanks, I don't like PC too much either, seems like hypocrisy most of the time. We also in Italy have little of it. I mean, instead of PC one should make sure to treat everybody in a fair way, but even if somebody is in a minority of some kind, if he/she does silly things, it is offensive to don't respond to it (possibly in a rough way) in the same way you would reply to everybody else.
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#238Github should implement a tempting system for commit messages that way every project can enforce there own standars. And those templates should be shareable, like a template repository so new and existing projects can opt to use one of the exciting ones.
problem solved :)
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#239I don't understand why people are upset with Linus's writing style. I considered what he wrote to be quite polite. He was merely stating his standards in terms of what he would and wouldn't accept (and github pull requests are on the "won't accept" list). He even explained why he wouldn't accept it. Furthermore, the patch was deficient in other ways. (a) it was missing the Signed-off-by: header, and (b) it should hav…
I think it was comments like "The fact that I have higher standards then makes people like you make snarky comments, thinking that you are cool. You're a moron." that people thought impolite. The comment he responded to appears to have been deleted, however, so I can make no judgement about how appropriate that was. I'd like to think it was completely appropriate -- I do agree with you overall that his other comments…
He was responding to someone who told him his "shit don't stink". Sort of understandable!
I note that GitHub actually did a blog entry sometime ago about good commit practice, and it seems to be the same as what Torvald's requires. Not sure I'm understanding what th issue is... https://github.com/blog/926-shiny-new-commit-styles
Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests
#240Can anyone point me to best practices on writing (git) commits?
Or can you sum up yours here?