Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Is a NATO Member

government.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 738 posts

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#561

Post by AnimalMuppet »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #389
Georgelemental wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He (and/or his people) have talked a lot about annexing at least part of Poland. Do you have a source?

Not offhand, no. I'm going by memory from remarks by... might have been Medvedev, might have been the defense chief or somebody like that. Not officially Putin, but pretty close to a Putin mouthpiece. This would have been within the last two or three months.

So I did a search, and I found this: https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine...

It's a close Putin ally in the legislature, saying that Poland is next after Ukraine. This is in January 2024.

(Of course, my same search turns up Putin saying that Russia will not invade Poland. But he also said that they wouldn't invade Ukraine, so I don't think we should believe him. But now I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, because I said that we should believe him when he said he would invade.

But, in short, yes, at least some of Putin's close allies have at least sometimes said that Russia will invade Poland.)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#562

Post by sobkas »

vajdagabor wrote: post #544
t0bia_s wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people just agree with this politics. Clearly, you and your source of information don't.

Do you mean, some people just consciously agree with being used and lied to and their taxes being stolen so that the leaders can be richer and more powerful while schooling, health care and economy is in decay? I don't think so.

> Do you mean, some people just consciously agree with being used and lied to and their taxes being stolen so that the leaders can be richer and more powerful while schooling, health care and economy is in decay? I don't think so.

Many people actually do that, because in their minds alternative is "left" that will do the same but with added bonus of supporting LGBT, fight against climate change, unrestricted immigration and such. And getting traditional true patriot of country X rich is preferred to fattening this dirty commies traitors on the "left".

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#563

Post by wickedsickeune »

valval wrote: post #552
renegade-otter wrote: post #108

Being a NATO member gives a nation more security than nuclear weapons, effectively. Nuclear states can and HAVE gone to wars - but no one wants to mess with the devastating conventional power of NATO. After the recent gutting, Russia has a few dozen SU-34s that can fly. NATO has thousands of planes.

Oh yeah, Russia will lose any moment now :D

It's because of the crippling sanctions!

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#564

Post by nikolay »

vardump wrote: post #555
nikolay wrote: post #403

[flagged]

There's no russophobia except in Kremlin's propaganda. European nations just can't take any chances with aggression and untrustworthiness of the current Russian leadership. That's just common sense. This is nothing against Russian population.

Oh, there indeed is! I'm not Russian, but I've experienced it since I came to the States! Most Russophobes are Democrats, neocons, and people from the former Soviet bloc!

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#565

Post by solardev »

bee_rider wrote: post #350
malermeister wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you responded to, but I agree that the EU needs a bit more independence from the US. To me, it's mostly about being able to stand up for ourselves on a world stage - ideally through a common EU military that is strong enough to deter adversaries even without US support. My main reason is the instability of the American political climate and the way every four years there's an election between a centris…

I think many in the US would also be happy with a stronger Europe. A friendly peer competitor to call us out if we decided to go to war to ostensibly “spread democracy” would probably be good, for example.

Isn't that how we got "freedom fries" and "with us or against us"?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#566

Post by apienx »

euroderf wrote: post #536
apienx wrote: post #337

The largest country on Earth murders people for merely expression an opinion and a massive chunk of our planet's geological wealth is funneled to fund wars of aggression. This sovereign decision is in perfect alignment with Sweden's value and security needs. Yet, that the decision involved kissing the rings of other no-good men (Erdogan and Orban) tells me we need a paradigm shift. Is it legal to crowdfund Putin's ea…

> Is it legal to crowdfund Putin's early retirement? The money required would be not less than a couple of orders of magnitude larger than John Oliver's offer to Clarence Thomas.

Retirement was a euphemism. And I think 10 billion dollars should be able to buy it.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#567

Post by rad_gruchalski »

lumb63 wrote: post #146
RecycledEle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bigger alliance is harder to defeat in war. Also, a bigger alliance requires each member to contribute fewer troops to manage a common defense. Sweden is a fairly wealthy country that can contribute the required amount to NATO. Sweden's ports are beneficial in a potential Arctic conflict. Finally, Sweden does not bring any new potential conflicts/enemies with it.

But also, a bigger alliance creates a larger amount of territory to defend. For example if the US were to leave NATO, they miss out on all the benefits that European NATO members provide, but also would not need to defend Europe, which is where any war involving NATO members is likely to happen. It seems to me that the US gains very little from being in NATO.

Where are you going to sell your Pepsi Cola to?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#568

Post by sph »

xdennis wrote: post #478
sph wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the US really risk its name and face ignoring their biggest and most powerful military alliance? Honour and keeping your word are very important in geopolitics, especially among countries that have been allied for almost a century, and you won't remain the top dog very long if you avoid your duties at the first difficulty. So yes, if Russia attacks Latvia, you better believe the US is gonna send everything they…

I'm pro NATO, but I don't think the support of the US is guaranteed. The US has always been an unreliable partner: it depends on who's in power. If the republican war hawks or moderate Democrats are in power they would support Latvia, but libertarians and far leftists would say "it's not our problem".

There are no libertarians or far left politicians in the Oval Office, now or in the near future.

I cannot speak to how the US would behave in 50 years, but being true to its word it is mandatory for the US to project itself as the "world leader". The day the Oval Office is able to ignore its allies, it is the day the US is no longer a global leader.

That's simply the cost to pay to be seen as the leader of the free world. The fact that some US politicians openly want to go down the route of reneging its allies speaks volumes about how long the US empire will last.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#569

Post by quickthrowman »

baxtr wrote: post #418
u320 wrote: post #293

One thing that isn't mentioned a lot in connection to this: Sweden and Denmark has a VERY violent history. Hundreds of years of wars. It is said to be the worst conflict in all of human history. Now we are allied and committed to defend each other. That's a huge thing for peace.

I have many Serbian friends going for holidays in Croatia. Unthinkable 30 years ago. So maybe, in 50 years from now, Russia will join NATO, too?

> So maybe, in 50 years from now, Russia will join NATO, too?

Probably not. Russian history for the last several hundred years is a series of kings, emperors, and dictators. Massacres and purges.

The entire peasantry was only freed from slavery 150 years ago. Being ruled by hereditary monarchs and dictators for so long has fundamentally changed Russian culture to be vastly different from the West.

IMO it would take a radical culture shift for Russia to join the West.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#570

Post by Terr_ »

u320 wrote: post #399
dragonwriter wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know Ukraine will not and cannot do this, but writing off it's East and Crimea would enable NATO membership and EU ascension. No, it wouldn't. NATO deciding it was willing to piss off Russia (which is why, without those active conflicts, Ukraine and Georgia were denied MAPs in 2008) would allow NATO membership. There's no actual rule that would prevent Ukraine from joining during the invasion (and even if there w…

The entire purpose of joining NATO is to defend against russian imperialism (Something Sweden has a ton experience with, for hundreds of years) Always has been. There is not much point in joining if you exclude that bit.

Certainly the main purpose, but I think over the last 70+ years there are some other benefits to members.

For example, fostering trade of military goods and technologies between members (especially for the USA as a major exporter) and smoothing out their national budgeting since it's kind of like buying insurance.

Post reply on HN