Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Is a NATO Member

government.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 738 posts

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#481

Post by hermitcrab »

jajko wrote: post #107
s_dev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the blackmailing by Hungary and Turkey.

Its funny with Hungary, Orban is such an incompetent ruler that currently Hungary is paying way above market prices for gas from Russia. So much for being friends with benefits with russia. You can see how it all is a series of really not that smart moves for Hungary for a long time, borderline treason. And one point generally - please lets stop calling whats happening in Ukraine in any other way than War. putin's wa…

The 'Empire' podcast ran a series about Russia: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/empire/id1639561921

It is clear from listening to the podcast that Russia has always been nightmare to live in (unless you perhaps belonged to a tiny elite) or have as a neighbour. Serfdom wasn't abolished until 1861.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#482

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

protomolecule wrote: post #473
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I should have said in response to actions by Russia, which is the point, my timeline is obviously wrong.

All the Russian actions happened later.

Russia obviously had been interfering in Ukraine politics. Why do you think the president fled to Russia?

Ukraine even at that point had long wanted to escape Russia's malign influence, banning their language is a declaration of that desire.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#483

Post by the_why_of_y »

bertil wrote: post #376
krippe wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how there wasn't really ANY desire to join NATO before Russia showed, once again, that you can not trust them. The full scale of Ukraine really was the straw that broke the camel's back.

> ANY desire to join NATO Sweden has been using Nato standards and running occasional exercises with Nato for a while now. They didn’t want to be officially part of it because of their unique perspective on War and Peace (see Olof Palme, sending Blue helmets in Cyprus), but there wasn’t a lack of desire to join. I’d compare it to Switzerland and the EU: the de-facto alliance is obviously beneficial, but principles ha…

Finland realized that Finlandization does not work any more, by observing what happened to another country that tried to Finlandize for the last 3 decades: Ukraine.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#484

Post by Macha »

Ygg2 wrote: post #280
bilekas wrote: post #4

This is great news and NATO benefits hugely from this. I have to hand it to putin for bringing further solidarity across Europe and NATO.

Yeah. We should thank people that put him there. Checks notes - The United States. Huh?! Wait. Putin got voted person of the year 2007?

> Wait. Putin got voted person of the year 2007?

Other notable winners include Hitler, Stalin (twice!), Khrushchev and Trump.

I don't think it's an indication that the west likes them. Even in recent times, I'm not sure it's even an indication that time magazine likes them (see Trump)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#485

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

rihards__ wrote: post #288

Only downside for Sweden really is that they are now recommended to spend >=2% of GDP for defense. Otherwise, congratulations. Same as Finland, Sweden is hige NET benefit for alliance, welcome friends!

Swedens defense budget for 2024 is 2.1% of GDP.

I'm my view, with the recent events, Sweden would need to spend at least 2% with or without NATO. Now we can spend 2% but get a lot more value out of it.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#486

Post by tim333 »

RajT88 wrote: post #214
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment really illustrates the hollowness of the "NATO expanded too aggressively" claim. NATO didn't force any of these ex-Soviet countries to join. They ran to join NATO as soon as they could. They'd experienced living with the Russian boot on their neck, and they were eager to join a collective security organization to prevent it from ever happening again.

> This comment really illustrates the hollowness of the "NATO expanded too aggressively" claim. In the US, only wingnuts and "useful idiots" (really the same group) are repeating this talking point.

Mearshiemer got quite a favourable hearing on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30559136

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#487

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

moogly wrote: post #291
seydor wrote: post #128

This is actually very significant, this time NATO expands to the west, and who knows where next. I wonder what was the debate in Sweden all this time (beyond the waiting for some dictators to give them the final approval)

There was practically no debate this time. Not because everyone was on board, but because any debate was basically suppressed. There was some debate in the past couple of decades however.

We have representative democracy in Sweden and something like 88% of representatives wanted Sweden to join NATO. There were debates but it gets a bit pointless when such a huge majority agree on it.

In what forum would you want to see more debates on the topic? Hearing a debate between two guys who wants the same thing seems pointless.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#488

Post by tga_d »

bertil wrote: post #376
krippe wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how there wasn't really ANY desire to join NATO before Russia showed, once again, that you can not trust them. The full scale of Ukraine really was the straw that broke the camel's back.

> ANY desire to join NATO Sweden has been using Nato standards and running occasional exercises with Nato for a while now. They didn’t want to be officially part of it because of their unique perspective on War and Peace (see Olof Palme, sending Blue helmets in Cyprus), but there wasn’t a lack of desire to join. I’d compare it to Switzerland and the EU: the de-facto alliance is obviously beneficial, but principles ha…

They presumably meant in terms of popular opinion, which was always going to be de facto necessary to join (even if in the end it happened without a referendum). See the list of polls enumerated here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations#...

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#489

Post by ttymck »

MaxPengwing wrote: post #187
ttymck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you say is true in theory, but does this mean the US will deploy fewer troops in NATO theaters, in practice?

No, it has already increased, but not due to Sweden and Finland joining. the increase was a direct response to Russia invading Ukraine. https://www.uso.org/stories/3518-one-year-later-how-the-uso-... https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_136388.htm https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-... But in same time European allies has also increased their NATO soldiers.

Yes, I am asking: all else equal, would more NATO members reduce the number of US soldiers deployed.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#490

Post by orbital-decay »

FartinMowler wrote: post #470
chasd00 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine had the weapons but no means to use them. Russia had the keys.

Then why did Russia feel the need to enter into the agreement if holding the keys was sufficient?

Maybe because these were radically different times, and the "we've always been at war with X or Y" is just a narrative? No, of course not, what a nonsense.
Post reply on HN