Men In Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Men In Tech

#41

Post by tomp » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:18 AM UTC

redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing.

From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public, either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating. For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves, except by being physically bigger and stronger (or by being armed/better at fighting, but that might cause some legal problems). So, we do basically nothing to "protect ourselves" in daily life, because there is nothing we can do, the most we can do is to try not to elevate the situation if things get heated/if you meet a violent idiot somewhere.

I'm not trying to downplay the dangers women face in our society. It's just obvious to me that whenever someone says that women are endangered without saying that men are too, they are much more motivated by discrimination against men than by making this society better & safer.

Re: Men In Tech

#42

Post by tomp » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:20 AM UTC

robconery wrote: post #34

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

> You'd be surprised the shit women deal with.

I'm not sure, but I think you're being too general. I'd rather state this:

  You'd be surprised by the shit *attractive* women have to deal with.

And I 'm pretty sure that attractive men have to deal with the same kind of "shit". They just react to it differently.

Edit: I expected the downvotes, but please reply, do you disagree with the stated facts (i.e. does you experience differ from mine), or with the manner they were stated in?

Re: Men In Tech

#43

Post by tomp » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:26 AM UTC

antihero wrote: post #31

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #5

Hmm, not completely sure what this article is getting at but it seems to be implying that men and women are the same and would feel the same way when reacting to such things as sexual harassment and whether or not you're desirable to the opposite sex. That's basically a completely false premise. Because of biological facts and the resultant social history, men and women have completely different values and attitudes…

No it's reversing the social history too. Why would the scenarios in the story have ever come up if the social history hadn't been reversed? tl;dr whoosh

It's also reversing the gender biology. And that's a problem.

Re: Men In Tech

#44

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:52 AM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #3

I think this is largely the expression of terrible, terrible social skills. I've seen appalling things toward women and men alike from young, socially inept Bay Area tech males. Also, for what it's worth, I've received a lot of crap from women over the course of my working life. In college, I worked in a deli where I was the only male. There was outright sexual harassment, and regular dismissal of me solely because I…

I'm not persuaded.

I know a number of socially inept people. Some of them are perfectly pleasant, just hopelessly awkward. Others are jerks to everyone. But some are sexist jerks. And there are some people who are perfectly well socialized who are also sexist jerks.

Women were oppressed for millennia. Women in the US haven't had the vote for even 100 years. Men and women didn't have equal college enrollment rates until circa 1990. I just don't buy the thesis that sexism is now suddenly extinct, especially in a male-dominated field.

I'm sorry you've received crap. Due to your gender or anything else. But understand that jumping into a discussion of sexism with "but that happens to me too!" is such a common problem that it's listed in the "Derailing for Dummies" guide: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/menu.html

Re: Men In Tech

#45

Post by yukyukyuk » Sat, May 12, 2012, 9:55 AM UTC

robconery wrote: post #34

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

I totally thought the essay was written by a woman before I realized the truth. I can't imagine why you wrote this. This whole notion that "women need men to defend them" is just so ridiculously patronizing and condescending. If the women don't like how they're being treated, they can complain about it themselves.

Nobody cares about this white knight nonsense, so quit clogging up the tubes. Also, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I have never heard of a woman complain about how often guys look at her chest. And if a woman ever did complain about that, I would think her incredibly conceited. This is why women get boob jobs, and AFAIK women who get boob jobs and who get increased sexual attention from males report substantially increased confidence.

Re: Men In Tech

#46

Post by kateray » Sat, May 12, 2012, 10:02 AM UTC

robconery wrote: post #34

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

Wait, so what's the point in taking you into a realm that's utterly absurd? I'm not sure that it helps men relate to women's experiences if it feels absurd....

Re: Men In Tech

#47

Post by sasha-dv » Sat, May 12, 2012, 10:27 AM UTC

Just what women need!

Another middle-aged white man fighting for the women's rights. It's condescending. It's just a step away from "A Gay Girl in Damascus".

Re: Men In Tech

#48

Post by zerostar07 » Sat, May 12, 2012, 10:50 AM UTC

robconery wrote: post #34

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

So you claim that all women are threatened when men look at their breast. Because women are pure and come from venus and all the other b.s. from last century. And the men who look at said breasts are sadistic rapists who can't keep it to their pants thus why she should feel threatened. Plus a woman looking at a crotch is a nympho who wants it right there right now. I think you are missing the entire point of gender inequality.

Re: Men In Tech

#49

Post by xyzzyz » Sat, May 12, 2012, 10:54 AM UTC

kateray wrote: post #46

robconery wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

Wait, so what's the point in taking you into a realm that's utterly absurd? I'm not sure that it helps men relate to women's experiences if it feels absurd....

The point is that it's absurd, but women actually deal with this kind of shit. Ridiculous, huh?

Re: Men In Tech

#50

Post by antonb2011 » Sat, May 12, 2012, 11:21 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #19

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

Of course the story described in the post have zero chance of happening in the real world, but that's the whole point, I guess.

That's what you think. A good friend of mine is 6'2 and used to be a part time male fitness model. He's a software engineer at a large bank and all the girls hit on him and never believe him when he says he's a software engineer.