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Men In Tech

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Re: Men In Tech

#31

Post by antihero »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #5

Hmm, not completely sure what this article is getting at but it seems to be implying that men and women are the same and would feel the same way when reacting to such things as sexual harassment and whether or not you're desirable to the opposite sex. That's basically a completely false premise. Because of biological facts and the resultant social history, men and women have completely different values and attitudes…

No it's reversing the social history too. Why would the scenarios in the story have ever come up if the social history hadn't been reversed?

tl;dr whoosh

Re: Men In Tech

#32

Post by cwp »

lucisferre wrote: post #25

The comments here so far are mind bogglingly stupid. It's intended as a satire, simple as that. Try not to over think it guys.

Satire, huh? So by telling a story of sexism with the genders reversed, the author is slyly poking fun at all the fuss about sexism in tech that we've been hearing lately, and showing us how ridiculous it all is. That's an interesting take, 'cause I sure didn't read it that way. To me it seems more like a straight put-yourself-in-her-shoes appeal to empathy for women who brave the tech industry.

Re: Men In Tech

#33

Post by adrianhoward »

tomjen3 wrote: post #27
redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.

That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit).

The 1/4 number in the USA that's usually quoted is for rape and attempted rape.

For an explanation of where the 1/4 number came from in the US - read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States. I'd be interested in which part of the methodologies of the four different studies done by separate groups - one in 1987, one in 1995, one in 2000, and one in 2006 - you think is bullshit.

Even if you ignore the "attempted" the numbers that have come from multiple pieces of research in the US and UK of somewhere between 1/5 and 1/20 of women who will be raped isn't exactly reassuring either.

Unfortunately from the number of women I know well enough for the conversation topic to have come up I can easily believe that the higher numbers are much closer to reality than the low.

For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.

Unfortunately most rapes happen in environments where other males aren't around.

Re: Men In Tech

#34

Post by robconery »

knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this.

Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing when they're aggressive.

Next time you're with a female coworker, notice how often you and the other men in the group look at her chest. Notice how often she ignores this and how completely oblivious the other men are that she's overlooking their behavior. If you don't believe me - and if you know this woman well enough - ask her.

You'd be surprised the shit women deal with.

Re: Men In Tech

#35

Post by robconery »

zdw wrote: post #10

This is a pretty artificial and transparent effort, but it's well intentioned. It's often interesting to see commentary from fields where the gender divide skews heavily toward women. Libraries are one good example - I know several people of both genders who work in them. To make some broad generalization, sexual harassment tends to be a more minor issue, but "drama" and territorialism tends to be much worse. One exa…

Does your local library push videos of Hot Library Chicks dancing around poles while male library guys rap in their face? (referring to the Nokia Vimeo video).

This isn't about gender divide, it's about a complete lack of understanding.

Re: Men In Tech

#36

Post by wpietri »

tomjen3 wrote: post #27
redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.

Why is that stat bullshit? From Wikipedia: "More than a quarter of college age women report having experienced a rape or rape attempt since age 14." The citation for that sentence points here: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.avb.2006.10.002

Also, I don't think the question of fault is interesting here. Crime is the fault of the criminals alone. But creating a safe society is everyone's responsibility.

Re: Men In Tech

#38

Post by wpietri »

sigmaxipi wrote: post #26
redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. >When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing. Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it…

This is excellent advice -- for women roaming free on our ancestral savanna.

For those of us, though, who are collaborating on this whole civilization thing, high levels of fear are bad. Especially well-justified fears that keep people from participating fully in society.

Re: Men In Tech

#39

Post by tomp »

awakeasleep wrote: post #23

Wow. What a killer article. I think it went pretty far in depth, and I let myself take the time to imagine everything the author was describing, and I fuckin felt it man. If this was written by a man, I applaud the effort you put into empathizing with women. If it was written by a woman, Thank you for thinking up so many creative and kick ass examples. Our society has a long way to go before we reach equality. And I…

> Our society has a long way to go before we reach equality.

Why is there such a strong emphasis on equality?

In Slovenian, we have two similar words, of which one means "equality", and the other means roughly "equal rights". I'm always annoyed when the former is stated as a goal, instead of the latter.

We're not equal, and never will be. For example, men don't have to bear children, they don't need a "paternal leave" (where it's available, it's a nice bonus, but it shouldn't be introduced/mandatory at the expense of the maternal leave).

Another apparent difference between the sexes is the different priorities in the choice of mate. I'm sure that the bigger emphasis assigned by man to the visual appearance of women is partially based in our culture, but also partially based in our biology. Sure, sexual comments at the workplace are inappropriate, but I'm never going to seek excuses for my preference for seeing sexy women in ads (btw, another gender bias used in ads, but rarely mentioned, even by the most fierce proponents of "equality": if a person is implied to be socially awkward/stupid/taken advantage of, it's almost always a man).

There is, however, one area where men and women are mostly equal: the advantages in life that the alpha members of each sex are awarded with (the meaning of alpha differ between the genders: in women, it's mostly looks, in men, it's fame, power, money, fitness/lookss (not necessarily in this order)).

Re: Men In Tech

#40

Post by tomwalker »

sigmaxipi wrote: post #26
redwood wrote: post #22

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which ra…

>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. >When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing. Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it…

This is true.

I have worked in emergency medicine, dealing with all types of assault, and females are rarely assaulted compared to men. When they are it is often by someone they know and usually another female.

Random assault on a female is front page news, for a male its socially acceptable!

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