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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#461

Post by hinkley »

rsynnott wrote: post #429
hinkley wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a little wine country just off of Lake Superior. The water buffers the temperatures enough to keep grapes happy. I know the Baltic is probably colder than Lake Superior, but it sounds like it works anyway.

Looking at the weather averages for Duluth (chosen at random), no, that actually looks probably colder than the heavily populated bits of Sweden, certainly in the winter.

The wine region is the little corner of Michigan just north of Indiana. They also do apples and cheese. I’m not sure how far north the region extends, but I’ve been there a few times. So that’s quite a bit farther south than the Swedish peninsula.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#462

Post by xpl »

baxtr wrote: post #418
u320 wrote: post #293

One thing that isn't mentioned a lot in connection to this: Sweden and Denmark has a VERY violent history. Hundreds of years of wars. It is said to be the worst conflict in all of human history. Now we are allied and committed to defend each other. That's a huge thing for peace.

I have many Serbian friends going for holidays in Croatia. Unthinkable 30 years ago. So maybe, in 50 years from now, Russia will join NATO, too?

Russia had in fact expressed desire to join NATO in Putin's early days as a president.

Apparently he wanted to fast-track, so it might have hurt his ego somehow, when he was told that Russia is no special.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240228155601/https://www.thegu...

George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said.

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#463

Post by xdennis »

vajdagabor wrote: post #405
s_dev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the blackmailing by Hungary and Turkey.

Blackmailing by Orban and his party, not Hungary.

Fair enough, but he's been in power for 18 years (1998-2002, 2010-present). He couldn't do that without widespread and lasting support.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#464

Post by dralley »

AlGrothendieck wrote: post #446
dralley wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

>Remember, the year before invasion all what Russian diplomacy wanted - it is to give guaranties that Ukraine won't join NATO?

"The year before the invasion" - 2013, right? That's the year you're referring to? The year in which he got a 30 year lease on Sevastopol, thereby keeping Ukraine out of NATO for decades? Because Yanukovich was still in power, and doing everything to appease him?

Why is it that the medal Shoigu got for the Crimea takeover commemorates a date a week prior to Maidan, and two weeks prior to the "official" start of the invasion? Why is it that despite the "diplomacy" they never even attempted to abide by the Minsk agreements (and if you feel like disputing this, refresh yourself on article 10 and the timeline of events at Donetsk Airport)?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#467

Post by NicoJuicy »

pphysch wrote: post #377
rnk wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what project is unwinding? It looks to me like Europe is still coming together to resist the danger of Russian invasion. For Nuland, it looks like she had a long career, she had many good roles, she championed protecting Ukraine and there was only one other position for to be promoted to and they promoted someone else. So that seems like a perfect time to leave after a successful career.

[flagged]

Retreating gives more benefits to Ukraine.

If you think anything is defeated, you should look at the facts ( eg. Airplanes downed in the last weeks). Which seems to be more significant to me while f16's are on the way.

Retreating is not defeating :)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#469

Post by simion314 »

dralley wrote: post #457
simion314 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Setting aside for a moment the rather large conflict that ended in 1945 - if you're in your late 20s or older, both Libya and Kosovo happened within your lifetime and meet your criteria. 1 That was not an Article 5 thing, 2 how many USA soldiers gave their life in Kosovoa? 3 1945/ww2 I think USA was attacked by Japan, americans did not enter the world to protect Europe, they were forced in the war so they had no cho…

>3 1945/ww2 I think USA was attacked by Japan, americans did not enter the world to protect Europe, they were forced in the war so they had no choice then to fight their enemies wherever they are. The American strategy in WWII was "Germany First" despite it having been the Japanese that attacked us.

And that strategy was somehow altruistic ? Explain? And explain why waiting to defend "Europe"

Anyway we talking about NATO, USA used Art5 and Europeans died for USA, but now Trumpists complain that we are not doing enough and USA will not return the favor

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#470

Post by FartinMowler »

chasd00 wrote: post #417
fifilura wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a good place to Post a reminder that in 1995, Ukraine agreed to hand over all its nuclear weapons to Russia in return of a promise to not threaten or use military force against Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Ukraine had the weapons but no means to use them. Russia had the keys.

Then why did Russia feel the need to enter into the agreement if holding the keys was sufficient?
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